mason@pneuma.DEC (ANDREA...DTN 223-4864) (04/22/85)
>Can anyone tell me how to walk quietly in heels? >Patty I'm really glad that this subject has come up; high heels are a pet peeve of mine. I want to make it real clear that I am **not** flaming at Patty; I am flaming at a society which still seeks to cripple women, both physically and mentally, by dictating fashions in clothes as well as body shape and what we think and how we choose to live. >>Is there any rule that says you have to wear HEELS? >>I try to wear the flattest shoes I can find,[....] I don't have the name of the person who wrote this, but I completely agree with her. "The rule" that says we *have* to wear heels is the fashion magazine, and the fashion designer. We can tell them no, we won't wear them. The "rule" that says we *shouldn't* wear high heels is our body: heels are physically dangerous and damaging to legs, feet and our backs. There are not a huge amount of low heeled shoes around; but they can be found. Each time we shop in a shoe store we can make our dissatifaction over the number of high heels to the number of low heeled shoes available known to the owner/manager by saying: "these shoes may be fashionable, but they are not comfortable; why don't you stock more shoes with lower/low heels?" I think that high heels are part of the male fantasy about how women should look. Heels certainly make women more vulnerable: ever try to run in them? Ever try to just *walk* in them? I have been watching women in my company lately as they teeter down the halls and through the parking lots on their heels. I just don't understand how/why they do it. What is at all attractive about wobbling around on "stilts"? High heeled fashions come from the desire to have women appear to be what they are not. These shoes appear to make us taller; but a tall woman is often "too tall" and is told to wear flats to de-emphasize her height. Similarly, make-up is meant to "hide our flaws;" no one's face is just right: either we have "too much" cheek bone, or not enough; our eyes are "too small", or our mouths are "too big" (woe to the woman who opens her too big mouth). This discussion also fits into the recent discussion on net.women about our body images and how comfortable/uncomfortable we are with ourselves. Our "what is right" image has been shaped by designers and advertisers who use the ultra thin models and the woman who is unusual in her looks rather than using everyday women who will eventually go to the store to look for and buy clothes to wear in everyday settings. These images make us believe that there is "something wrong" with us because we do not look like that. I could go into body hair and self image, but I won't...at this time. I think it is very telling that one response to Patty's original question was: >>Some women have told me that they envy my "guts" to wear them [running >>shoes] with dresses. This indicates that as women we are still afraid to say what it is we want or prefer. We go along with what is expected so that we won't be preceived as being "different". It is hard to be different; but we must try. It seems like the first woman who said to herself "I'm going to wear my running shoes to work and then change into shoes which go with my outfit" was pretty daring. When people began to see what good sense this made, it became an accepted thing to do...all good "yuppie women" started to do it; it became "the fashion." Now we need to go one step further and say, "if I can wear comfortable shoes on my way to work, why can't I keep them on once I get there?" ****andrea mason**** UUCP: decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-pneuma!mason ARPA: mason%pneuma.DEC@decwrl.ARPA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Disclaimer: The above thoughts are mine; my company makes computers, not high heels. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
jeffw@tekecs.UUCP (Jeff Winslow) (04/24/85)
> I think that high heels are part of the male fantasy about how women > should look. Heels certainly make women more vulnerable: ever try to > run in them? Ever try to just *walk* in them? I have been watching > women in my company lately as they teeter down the halls and through > the parking lots on their heels. I just don't understand how/why they > do it. What is at all attractive about wobbling around on "stilts"? > I sympathize with your desire to avoid wearing high heels; they look like they must be about the most uncomfortable wearing apparel ever invented (with he possible exception of neckties :-) ). Like neckties, there is no good reason for requiring them to be worn. However, I have to admit that, for some unknown reason, I do find them attractive, if the woman who is wearing them is enough used to them that she *doesn't wobble*. There is *nothing* attractive about wobbling around. At least to this man. I hope this helps a little with clearing up the mystery. Jeff Winslow
hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) (04/24/85)
In article <1764@decwrl.UUCP> mason@pneuma.DEC (ANDREA...DTN 223-4864) writes: > Heels certainly make women more vulnerable: ever try to >run in them? Ever try to just *walk* in them? I have been watching >women in my company lately as they teeter down the halls and through >the parking lots on their heels. I just don't understand how/why they >do it. What is at all attractive about wobbling around on "stilts"? The vulnerability factor is the key here. High heels are designed to cripple women so they can't run away. The same effect is achieved by the Chinese custom of binding a woman's feet. I've seen x-ray photographs of the bones in a woman's foot in a high heeled shoe and the bones in the bound foot of a Chinese woman. They're virtually identical. (Yes, I'm aware of the legendary origins of foot-binding. A thousand years from now there's probably going to be a legend about why women started wearing high heels.) -- -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe) Citicorp TTI 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. Santa Monica, CA 90405 (213) 450-9111, ext. 2483 {philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe
nessus@nsc.UUCP (Kchula-Rrit) (04/25/85)
> This discussion also fits into the recent discussion on net.women > about our body images and how comfortable/uncomfortable we are with > ourselves. Our "what is right" image has been shaped by designers and > advertisers who use the ultra thin models and the woman who is unusual > in her looks rather than using everyday women who will eventually go > to the store to look for and buy clothes to wear in everyday settings. > These images make us believe that there is "something wrong" with us > because we do not look like that. I could go into body hair and self > image, but I won't...at this time. > > I think it is very telling that one response to Patty's original > question was: > > >>Some women have told me that they envy my "guts" to wear them [running > >>shoes] with dresses. > > This indicates that as women we are still afraid to say what it is we > want or prefer. We go along with what is expected so that we won't be > preceived as being "different". It is hard to be different; but we > must try. It seems like the first woman who said to herself "I'm > going to wear my running shoes to work and then change into shoes > which go with my outfit" was pretty daring. ... > ... > > ****andrea mason**** > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Disclaimer: The above thoughts are mine; my company makes computers, not > high heels. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** This reminds me of something that happened over the weekend(Apr 20) to/with me. The MOTAS and I were in a "second-hand" store looking at clothing. I ran across some ankle("full"?")-length skirts that looked very nice. I thought, "Gee, what a shame these aren't in style any more." I mentioned this to MOTAS, who said, in essence, "What does the current fashion style/lack-therof(:-) have to do with your wearing something that you like and looks good on you? Are you going to let your tastes in clothing be set by someone else?" After some thinking, I bought one of the skirts, a corduroy, which is a material I've always felt comfortable in. All my life I haven't necessarily gone by "current-style" in choosing what I wear. It's been pick and choose and mix and match and sometimes things don't quite "look right" together, but I try to coordinate things as best I can. Sometimes people have tried to make me feel strange because I don't have the inclination to look/dress/act like a fashion model. This [peer pressure] and its associated "strange"/guilt feeling is sometimes incredibly hard to buck. It can get SO depressing. How do you out there deal with this? People say, "Why don't you wear make-up? I think it would look very good on you." They don't believe me when I say(truthfully), 0. "I don't have the time" 1. "I have better things to do with my time" 2. "I can't paint" 3. "The computer doesn't care if I do or not" 4. Along with the usual things about skin, chemicals, etc. Same thing when people say "You dress funny." "You don't shave your legs." Because I don't shave my legs, I wear tights with skirts and dresses. They question me about that, too. What's the problem? I try to keep the colors matched/coordinated. But then, I have/had some friends who 2-3 hours just to get ready to go outside to get the mail or down the street to the 7-11. You know, make-up and all has to JUST right. Nice people, but somehow it seems odd getting one of them to throw a Frisbee(tm) in the park or walk in the woods. Sorry for rambling but it was just smouldering beneath the surface and I just had to get it off my chest. Kchula-Rrit !menlo70!nessus P.S. Maybe I should change my pseudonym to "The Paranoid Android". K-Rr P.P.S. The skirt was/is very comfortable(air-conditioned work place), except that it sticks to my tights. Makes walking interesting. They use the little drains in the floor of my building to draw off the liquid air. K-Rr
carson@homxa.UUCP (P.CARSTENSEN) (04/26/85)
Just to clean up my net.image...when I started working, I just about decided that I was going to conform and wear the heels -- and then I happened to get a look at the feet of a couple older women I know (in their 60's), and decided I really did *not* want twisted toes and general deformity one gets from wearing high heels and pointed toes. I wear 3/4 - 1 " heels to meetings, but otherwise change out of the tennis shoes when I get around to it...except when I am wearing slacks, in which case I sometimes wear the hiking-style boots all day... On another subject, how come all my male friends complain all the time about it being impossible to find jackets with wide enough shoulders *grin* Patty
jeff@rtech.ARPA (Jeff Lichtman) (04/26/85)
> People say, "Why don't you wear make-up? I think it would look very > good on you." > > They don't believe me when I say(truthfully), > > 0. "I don't have the time" > 1. "I have better things to do with my time" > 2. "I can't paint" > 3. "The computer doesn't care if I do or not" > 4. Along with the usual things about skin, chemicals, etc. > > Same thing when people say "You dress funny." "You don't shave your legs." > Because I don't shave my legs, I wear tights with skirts and dresses. They > question me about that, too. What's the problem? I try to keep the colors > matched/coordinated. > > Kchula-Rrit I was brought up to believe that questions and comments like this are extremely rude. I don't think they even deserve an answer. In the unusual circumstance that someone questions me about my personal appearance, I usually respond with nothing but a blank stare. Another appropriate response would be: "What business is it of yours?" Of course, these comments don't apply to people with whom you are very close, where any topic of conversation should be OK. -- Jeff Lichtman at rtech (Relational Technology, Inc.) aka Swazoo Koolak {amdahl, sun}!rtech!jeff {ucbvax, decvax}!mtxinu!rtech!jeff
herbie@watdcsu.UUCP (Herb Chong [DCS]) (04/28/85)
i think i ought to bring up another point about high heels. my boots have
a 1.5 inch riding heel (they're cowboy boots). ninety-nine percent of the
time i wear tennis shoes or jogging shoes, but for formal occaisions, i wear
my boots. i have more back problems and my feet hurt more than when i'm
not wearing them. women aren't the only ones with thes problems, but they
seem to be the majority.
Herb Chong...
I'm user-friendly -- I don't byte, I nybble....
UUCP: {decvax|utzoo|ihnp4|allegra|clyde}!watmath!water!watdcsu!herbie
CSNET: herbie%watdcsu@waterloo.csnet
ARPA: herbie%watdcsu%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
NETNORTH, BITNET, EARN: herbie@watdcs, herbie@watdcsuhrs@homxb.UUCP (H.SILBIGER) (04/29/85)
In a previous incarnation as a civil engineer, when working on a construction site, or surveying I wore engineer boots. These are big, black clunky boots with a strap across the instep. They also have relatively high heels, to dig into the mud or hillside with. They were also very comfortable. I think the uncomfortable part of women's heels is probably not that they are high but that they are narrows, which makes the ankles twist resulting in a wobble. Herman Silbiger
lizv@tektools.UUCP (Liz Vaughan) (04/30/85)
> Heels certainly make women more vulnerable: ever try to >run in them? Ever try to just *walk* in them? I have been watching >women in my company lately as they teeter down the halls and through >the parking lots on their heels. I just don't understand how/why they >do it. What is at all attractive about wobbling around on "stilts"? The best explanation I've heard is that they accentuate several secondary sex characteristics. Standing in heels (I agree, walking is impossible) makes you thrust your chest forward, stick your buttocks out, and emphasizes the curve of your calves and thighs. Apparently this has an effect on the male of the species similar to mandrils' bright red rumps, peacocks' plumage display, etc. As for why women put up with it on a daily basis, I have no idea. I mean, maybe for going out (during mating season :-) or something, but walking on ice? I wear flats unless I absolutely have to. Another aspect of the tights vs. nylons issue is cost. Tights cost about $8.00 U.S., last 2 years or more, and are machine washable. Nylons cost at least $1.50, last less than 5 wearings, and have to be hand washed. Can you say cost-benefit analysis? Knew you could. Liz Vaughan
gail@calmasd.UUCP (Gail B. Hanrahan) (05/01/85)
>Another aspect of the tights vs. nylons issue is cost. Tights cost about >$8.00 U.S., last 2 years or more, and are machine washable. Nylons cost >at least $1.50, last less than 5 wearings, and have to be hand washed. >Can you say cost-benefit analysis? Knew you could. > >Liz Vaughan I wear nylons every day except weekends, and I have ten pairs that have lasted at least six months. I wash'em in the washing machine, too. Maybe you should try a different brand of nylons? Gail Bayley Hanrahan Calma Company, San Diego {ihnp4,decvax,ucbvax}!sdcsvax!calmasd!gail
mccolm@ucla-cs.UUCP (05/03/85)
> >Heels certainly make women more vulnerable: ever try to > >run in them? Ever try to just *walk* in them? Of course, this is a good example of true nastiness in action. To wit: make women vulnerable, so women will FEEL vulnerable, with predictable psychological and cultural effects. **flame** >The best explanation I've heard is that they accentuate several secondary >sex characteristics. Standing in heels (I agree, walking is impossible) >makes you thrust your chest forward, stick your buttocks out, and >emphasizes the curve of your calves and thighs. Ever notice that all the above "desirable" effects actually have undesirable side-effects on the poor unfortunates who suffer them? Now, if anyone came up with a clothing style that accentuated intellect, I would have to choose between my voyuerism and my respect for others. >As for why women put up with it on a daily basis, I have no idea. Failure to find a workplace-accepted counter-example. **flame, flame** >I mean, maybe for going out (during mating season :-) or something, >but walking on ice? Funny, that. I can draw comparisons between walking in high heels and walking on ice. In an actual and a cultural (and medical) sense. Oh, yes. RE: the comment about how this all started. Keep in mind that the ground pressure of a 1.5" heel is about the same (per sq. in.) as that of an elephant. And it's a lot harder, so it makes more noise. No personal experience, but the info. might help. But on the effects of high heels and the putting of womens' bodies on display for the enjoyment of men... <ignition sequence activated> <main engine start> <we have ignition> *********FFFFFFFLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMME**************** <liftoff, we have liftoff> you get the idea. -Eric ...!ucla-cs!mccolm Shade and sweet water...
zubbie@ihlpa.UUCP (Jeanette Zobjeck) (05/08/85)
> >Another aspect of the tights vs. nylons issue is cost. Tights cost about > >$8.00 U.S., last 2 years or more, and are machine washable. Nylons cost > >at least $1.50, last less than 5 wearings, and have to be hand washed. > >Can you say cost-benefit analysis? Knew you could. > > > >Liz Vaughan > > I wear nylons every day except weekends, and I have ten pairs > that have lasted at least six months. I wash'em in the washing > machine, too. > > Maybe you should try a different brand of nylons? > > > Gail Bayley Hanrahan > Calma Company, San Diego > {ihnp4,decvax,ucbvax}!sdcsvax!calmasd!gail I have found that buying stockings which can generally be found for from 1.00 to 1.50 in 2 to 3 pair quantities generally means that, even with normal wear and tear, I usually never have to buy hosiery more often then once every 18 months or more. I hand wash them which does not seem to hurt but my job has many sharp edges around. Some of the mesh variety last longer if I simply would be more careful. Jeanette Zobjeck ihmp4!ihlpa!zubbie
syn@uo-vax3.UUCP (syn) (05/09/85)
Ah, yes, and having forced the wearer into high heels in which there is NO way to walk quietly without literally tiptoe-ing, society applies the double bind as usual from inside the woman's mind--she must also be quiet, because ladies don't stomp or call attention to themselves. Arrrgh!
ellen@reed.UUCP (Ellen Eades) (05/09/85)
> > >Another aspect of the tights vs. nylons issue is cost. Tights cost about > > >$8.00 U.S., last 2 years or more, and are machine washable. Nylons cost > > >at least $1.50, last less than 5 wearings, and have to be hand washed. > > >Can you say cost-benefit analysis? Knew you could. > > > > > >Liz Vaughan > > > > I wear nylons every day except weekends, and I have ten pairs > > that have lasted at least six months. I wash'em in the washing > > machine, too. > > > > Maybe you should try a different brand of nylons? > > > > Gail Bayley Hanrahan > > I have found that buying stockings which can generally be found > for from 1.00 to 1.50 in 2 to 3 pair quantities generally means > that, even with normal wear and tear, I usually never have to > buy hosiery more often then once every 18 months or more. I hand > wash them which does not seem to hurt but my job has many sharp edges > around. Some of the mesh variety last longer if I simply would > be more careful. > > Jeanette Zobjeck Well...I guess I'll put my two cents in too. Maybe Liz and I are just accident-prone. Maybe I don't cut my toenails often enough :-). But I find it *remarkable* when I have a pair of nylons that last me more than three wearings. Average is probably two before a hole gets poked in the toe or I snag the back of the thigh on my chair or something. I have noticed that the way women walk/move affects nylon durability. Mom was always careful to smooth her skirt over her seat before she sat in a chair, thus insulating the nylons. Also she took shorter steps, which reduces some of the pressure of toes shoving against stocking-toes. I tend to walk like a boy, i.e. long strides and not look where I sit (on chairs, perched on cement benches, against desk corners). Maybe this has something to do with it. I'd rather wear socks than change the way I move, though. I'm going out into the real world next week to seek out summer jobs. I'll probably wear nylons all of next week and the week after, then switch back when I get a job. I might even shave :-). Perhaps I should perform a field survey... Ellen Eades
crs@lanl.ARPA (05/13/85)
> Ah, yes, and having forced the wearer into high heels in which there is > NO way to walk quietly without literally tiptoe-ing, society applies > the double bind as usual from inside the woman's mind--she must also be > quiet, because ladies don't stomp or call attention to themselves. > Arrrgh! WHOA!!!!! WHO has forced "the wearer" into high heels? Are we to believe that normal market forces don't work when it comes to women's shoes? I have been following this discussion because I have my *own* low opinion of the shoe designer's mentality but I have noticed several postings that implied (or said outright) that the atrocities that are sold as women's shoes are the result of a *male conspiracy*. I think that such an assertion is ludicrous. If women *truly* didn't want to wear such shoes they wouldn't buy them and if they didn't buy them the vendors would begin selling something that they *would* buy. As to the suggestion that women buy them because they have been conditioned to do so, think a moment about *who* conditioned them. Who teaches little girls to dress and what to wear? I think that you will find that, for the most part, the way women dress is influenced by what they were taught (explicitly and implicitly) by their mothers. A question for those of you who believe that high heeled shoes are the result of a "male conspiracy": How do you suggest that it was implemented? Charlie Sorsby ...!{cmcl2,ihnp4,...}!lanl!crs crs@lanl.arpa
sophie@mnetor.UUCP (Sophie Quigley) (05/17/85)
> If women *truly* didn't want to wear such shoes they wouldn't buy > them and if they didn't buy them the vendors would begin selling > something that they *would* buy. > That's nice in theory. Except that if women didn't buy these shoes, they'd end up *barefeet*. It IS VERY VERY (ok, another one..) VERY hard to find shoes which do not have high heels and are half-way decent-looking. I haven't been able to find any yet. Well, actually, there are some available these days, because of market pressure from "OOWW! TTOES", "the Organisation Of Women Whose third toe (from either side!) is 2 inches longer Than The OthErS". Unfortunately, nature has not allowed me membership in such a prestigious organisation, so I've been left out in the cold once again. What do I do, you ask? HAHA! I saw this coming a long time ago, so when chinese shoes were a big thing, I went around Chinatowns stocking up, and I now have over 50 pairs in all sorts of colours and textures. They don't look as dressy as high-heeled shoes that other women wear and my mother still doesn't think that I look like a real lady, but I never claimed to be one anyway, so there! -- Sophie Quigley {allegra|decvax|ihnp4|linus|watmath}!utzoo!mnetor!sophie
daemon@decwrl.UUCP (The devil himself) (05/18/85)
Re: Body Image, High Heels and All...___________________________________________ > Are we to believe that normal market forces don't work when it comes to > women's shoes? > * * * > If women *truly* didn't want to wear such shoes they wouldn't buy them and if > they didn't buy them the vendors would begin selling something that they > *would* buy. Ah yes, "normal" market forces. Which happen to include advertising, a profession dedicated to the mass manipulation of behavior. A profession which has an astounding battery of research findings and techniques to accomplish just that. Please don't give us an Economics 101 lecture. If you can't resist the urge to enlighten people about how wonderful "normal" market forces are, at least keep it in net.politics. > As to the suggestion that women buy [high heels] because they have been con- > ditioned to do so, think a moment about *who* conditioned them. . . . their > mothers. That's right; blame the mothers. It's in vogue these days, you know. (Just sit in on a child abuse court case. Usually it will be the father who is providing the abuse; yet the case will almost certainly revolve around how poorly the mother protected the child!) <_Jym_> :::::::::::::::: Jym Dyer ::::' :: `:::: Dracut, Massachusetts ::' :: `:: :: :: :: DYER%VAXUUM.DEC@DECWRL.ARPA :: .::::. :: {allegra|decvax|ihnp4|ucbvax}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-vaxuum!dyer ::..:' :: `:..:: ::::. :: .:::: Statements made in this article are my own; they might not :::::::::::::::: reflect the views of |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| Equipment Corporation.
zubbie@ihlpa.UUCP (Jeanette Zobjeck) (05/21/85)
> > Ah, yes, and having forced the wearer into high heels in which there is > > NO way to walk quietly without literally tiptoe-ing, society applies > > the double bind as usual from inside the woman's mind--she must also be > > quiet, because ladies don't stomp or call attention to themselves. > > Arrrgh! > > WHOA!!!!! > > WHO has forced "the wearer" into high heels? > > Are we to believe that normal market forces don't work when it comes > to women's shoes? > > I have been following this discussion because I have my *own* low > opinion of the shoe designer's mentality but I have noticed several > postings that implied (or said outright) that the atrocities that are > sold as women's shoes are the result of a *male conspiracy*. I think > that such an assertion is ludicrous. > > If women *truly* didn't want to wear such shoes they wouldn't buy > them and if they didn't buy them the vendors would begin selling > something that they *would* buy. > > As to the suggestion that women buy them because they have been > conditioned to do so, think a moment about *who* conditioned them. > Who teaches little girls to dress and what to wear? I think that you > will find that, for the most part, the way women dress is influenced > by what they were taught (explicitly and implicitly) by their mothers. > > A question for those of you who believe that high heeled shoes are the > result of a "male conspiracy": How do you suggest that it was > implemented? > > > Charlie Sorsby > ...!{cmcl2,ihnp4,...}!lanl!crs > crs@lanl.arpa *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** Until recently (historicaly) the dominant force of the women's fashion industry have all been men. Perhaps in the last 15 to 20 years women designers have been moving up as a force in this industry but I think if you look at what/where fashion ideas spring you will note that almost in every case either the designer was a man or a man or men had the final decision in the finished product. Yes, even I feel the biases which I learned from my mother, women did learn what to where and how from there mothers and so on back as far as you care to go and so in less enlightened times the thoughts of men about what was "right" for women worked their way into society. Today we, as women, are moving farther awayu from those pressures to fit into what we were taught by our mothers but we arent there yet and men still controll the industries which influence the thinking of society about women. The market place can only produce pressures as strong as the majority can make them and at this point women have not begun to bring those pressures to bear , I feel, primarily because of education. It takes a bit of doing to wake up to the WHY of what we do as individuals and today , unfortunately, there are still not enough educated women available to make the market place do what we, as a powere group, want it to do. Jeanette L. Zobjeck ihnp4!ihlp1!zubbie ================================================================================ These opinions are my own and worth exactly what you pay for them. I worked hard for themand they are of value to me. I will share them only with those people who feel the same. ================================================================================
geoff@burl.UUCP (geoff) (05/21/85)
> > If women *truly* didn't want to wear such shoes they wouldn't buy them and if > > they didn't buy them the vendors would begin selling something that they > > *would* buy. > > Ah yes, "normal" market forces. Which happen to include advertising, a > profession dedicated to the mass manipulation of behavior. A profession which > has an astounding battery of research findings and techniques to accomplish just > that. > Please don't give us an Economics 101 lecture. If you can't resist the > urge to enlighten people about how wonderful "normal" market forces are, at > least keep it in net.politics. And your solution? Deny the advertisers right of free speech? The women the right to buy the shoes they want? I realize that high heels are not in vogue in this news group, but the people here are hardly representative of women as whole (I can feel the heat already -- does it help if I add the obvious corallary that the men in the group are hardly representative of men as a whole, either?). I have known many women who LIKE high heels (my sister-in-law is one of them). Whether this came about because of advertising, girls wanting to imitate their mothers, or a racial memory back to the Great Foo Foo doesn't matter. They like them now (if you think not, just imagine the hue and cry if they were abruptly removed from the market). A lot of people don't like them. They need not wear them (I have a suspicion I would look kind of funny in them anyway :-)). If you can convince the shoe manufacturers they are not popular, they will change (might be hard to do if they keep selling well, though). I suppose my point is don't look around for someone to blame if people don't act the way you think they ought to. People are weird enough on their own -- they don't need help :-). And they will only be convinced by advertising when they WANT to be convinced. > <_Jym_> > > :::::::::::::::: Jym Dyer > ::::' :: `:::: Dracut, Massachusetts > ::' :: `:: > :: :: :: DYER%VAXUUM.DEC@DECWRL.ARPA > :: .::::. :: {allegra|decvax|ihnp4|ucbvax}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-vaxuum!dyer > ::..:' :: `:..:: > ::::. :: .:::: Statements made in this article are my own; they might not > :::::::::::::::: reflect the views of |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| Equipment Corporation. geoff sherwood