jamcmullan@wateng.UUCP (Judy McMullan) (05/14/85)
Whoa! I just want to get it clear (since I am being quoted out of context in a couple of articles) that I do *not* think that a woman must express disdain for men to feel pride in being a woman. I was pointing out how rare it is for any women to crow about being a woman *instead* of a man: > ... and only when an >individual woman is able to ignore societal expectations about her >status can she become obnoxious in her woman-pride. >Some women HAVE managed to express disdain for men and made >declarations that they are glad to be women. These "castrating bitches" >are quickly condemned (and pointed to as "typical feminists"). >I'd love to see the day when both women and men are seen as a little >weird for showing excessive pride in the accomplishments of members of >their own sex. Notice -- I said "obnoxious in her woman-pride". I do not think it is healthy for someone to denigrate the other sex (as too many men do -- being called a "girl" or a "woman" or a "c*nt" is an insult). My dictionary defines "proud" as "haughty; properly self-respecting". I think Dave Canzi's definition of pride (which started this discussion) is "haughty". I don't think much of that sort of pride -- with its implications of superiority over everyone else. I *do* believe both women and men should have self-respect. I enjoy the special aspects of being a woman -- my sexuality; my special relationship with my male lover; I look forward to having a child of my own; I like the shape of my body. In that sense, I am proud to be a woman. However, I suspect if I had been born a man I wouldn't be sitting around yearning to be a woman -- I would be enjoying my ability to open jars of jam without running them under the hot water tap. :-) In other words, being proud to be a woman does not mean one must put down men. The example above (which people have quoted a small bit of) is one where the "pride" is an emotion all tangled up with hatred. (Again, that answers Dave's original query. Men who are proud of other men are seen as "haughty" -- feeling superior. Women who are proud of other women are not seen as feeling superior because it is so rare in our society. Thus, they are seen as feeling self-respect -- being happy to be women.) --from the sssstickkky keyboard of JAM ...!{ihnp4|clyde|decvax}!watmath!wateng!jamcmullan
jeff@rtech.ARPA (Jeff Lichtman) (05/18/85)
> > Notice -- I said "obnoxious in her woman-pride". I do not think it is healthy > for someone to denigrate the other sex (as too many men do -- being called a > "girl" or a "woman" or a "c*nt" is an insult). ^^^^^ HUH!?!?!? -- Jeff Lichtman at rtech (Relational Technology, Inc.) aka Swazoo Koolak {amdahl, sun}!rtech!jeff {ucbvax, decvax}!mtxinu!rtech!jeff
jamcmullan@watmath.UUCP (Judy McMullan) (05/21/85)
> > > > Notice -- I said "obnoxious in her woman-pride". I do not think it is healthy > > for someone to denigrate the other sex (as too many men do -- being called a > > "girl" or a "woman" or a "c*nt" is an insult). > ^^^^^ > > HUH!?!?!? > -- > Jeff Lichtman at rtech (Relational Technology, Inc.) How nice that you misunderstood. It means you AREN'T one of those who think that to call a man a woman is an insult. However, it is quite common for one man to call another man a "woman" as an insult. It means they aren't rough and tough and masculine enough... --Judy McMullan