mccolm@ucla-cs.UUCP (05/05/85)
bip bip bip bip < . . . @ Here's a question that, I hope, won't start a fight. I'm a fantasy story fan, and I've noticed a problem with such stories: each author seems to write about characters of one sex, to the exclusion of the other. So, for example, J.R.R. Tolkien's works has NO believable females, while E. Lynn's Watchtower series has no believable males. And Andre Norton, though she writes about the lives of women, the characters who do anything are men. Even M.Z. Bradley's female characters are out for "a little adventure" before they find a man. (from what I've read) Are there any authors who don't fall into this trap? Who write about believable protagonists (not just antagonists) who are of either sex? I ask this in this group because it seems to be the place where most of the people who would know "hang their shells." -fini- -Eric Shade and sweet water... mccolm@ucla-cs.UUCP
chrise@ihlpa.UUCP (Chris Edmonds) (05/07/85)
> ... I've noticed a problem with such stories: each author seems to > write about characters of one sex, to the exclusion of the other. *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR FANTASY *** Try Heinlien...especially "Glory Road"...he seems to do what you ask fairly well although in other books he does focus on the male perspective.
eric@parallel.uucp (Eric Griswold) (05/08/85)
> Are there any authors who don't fall into this trap? Who write about > believable protagonists (not just antagonists) who are of either sex? Have you read anything of Julian May's, specifically "The Saga of the Pliocene Exile" (a four book series: _This_Many_Colored_Land_, _The_Golden_Torc_, _The_Nonborn_King_, & _The_Adversary_) - Another Eric
greenber@timeinc.UUCP (Ross Greenberg) (05/08/85)
Regarding writers and their protaginists:
I'm in my annual reread of _Atlas Shrugged_ by Ayn Rand. Although she
does have a weird idea of what sex is all about (in this readers humble
opinion -- no flames please!), she does seem to allow for her female
character (quoted at the end of this blurb) to develop fully.
Additionally you might want to read the science fiction series of books
by John Varley, titled _Titan_ , _Wizard_,& _Demon_ (three separate
books). Varley does allow for some lesbian encounter, if this bothers
you --- oh well!
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross M. Greenberg @ Time Inc, New York
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^^^^^^^^^--->New and improved, with added zing!
"If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other,
there better be no trade. A trade by which one gains and the other
loses is a fraud." --- Dagny Taggertwampler@unmvax.UUCP (05/08/85)
> Are there any authors who don't fall into this trap? Who write about > believable protagonists (not just antagonists) who are of either sex? Anne McCaffrey and Ursula LeGuin (although LeGuin is less fantasy) come to mind. Can't think of any men. Hmm...
jeffw@tekecs.UUCP (Jeff Winslow) (05/08/85)
> Are there any authors who don't fall into this trap? Who write about > believable protagonists (not just antagonists) who are of either sex? How about Boris Pasternak? "Doctor Zhivago" has a whole range of believable characters of both sexes. (Of course, it's also one of my most favortie books!) Jeff Winslow
ed@mtxinu.UUCP (Ed Gould) (05/11/85)
> > Are there any authors who don't fall into this trap? Who write about > > believable protagonists (not just antagonists) who are of either sex? > > Anne McCaffrey and Ursula LeGuin (although LeGuin is less fantasy) > come to mind. Can't think of any men. Hmm... That's true of recent McCaffrey. Her early stuff was pretty bad on the women, too. *All* of Le Guin's characters are good. -- Ed Gould mt Xinu, 2910 Seventh St., Berkeley, CA 94710 USA {ucbvax,decvax}!mtxinu!ed +1 415 644 0146
mario@astrovax.UUCP (Mario Vietri) (05/14/85)
> > Are there any authors who don't fall into this trap? Who write about > > believable protagonists (not just antagonists) who are of either sex? > > Anne McCaffrey and Ursula LeGuin (although LeGuin is less fantasy) > come to mind. Can't think of any men. Hmm... I am terribly surprised that noone mentioned Henry James. Was the original question restricted to science-fiction authors? I hope not, because Henry James is one of the subtlest connoisseurs of the human psyche among novelists of all places and times. Some of his books concern principally women. In fact, in the preface of 'The Bostonians', he relates how he desired to write a book on America and Americans (his earlier books mainly concern Americans living in Europe), and how he soon persuaded himself that there is nothing more peculiarly American than the relatively free condition of American women. For this reason, the book's main characters are two women and a man, all of them exquisitely portrayed. Many other of his books have women as protagonists ('The Princess Casamassima', 'The Europeans', or his late masterpiece, 'The Wings of the Dove'), or as the second most importants characters in the book ('The Ambassadors', 'The Goden Bowl', etc.). There is no need to mention that men are beautifully portrayed, too. There are also other men writers who narrate splendid women's stories: how about Jorge Amado and his 'Teresa Batista Tired of War', 'Gabriela Clover and Cinnamon', or 'Dona Flor and her Two Husbands'? Or, for all his mysoginy, G.B. Shaw's postface to his 'Pygmalion' in the Penguin edition. Obviously, the list could go on and on indefinitely. Add Doris Lessing, Jane Austen, D.H. Lawrence, and probably many many others writing in languages that I do not know. Mario Vietri Princeton University Astrophysics {most majors!princeton!astrovax!mario}
mag@whuxlm.UUCP (Gray Michael A) (05/15/85)
> > Are there any authors who don't fall into this trap? Who write about > believable protagonists (not just antagonists) who are of either sex? > I ask this in this group because it seems to be the place where most > of the people who would know "hang their shells." > -fini- > -Eric > Shade and sweet water... mccolm@ucla-cs.UUCP Have I got a book for you . . . "Red Sky at Morning" Richard Bradford and a close second: "So Far From Heaven" same author Both have been in paperback print for years. Sometimes bookstores stick them into the "Classics" racks. Mike Gray
ir278@sdcc6.UUCP (Paul Anderson) (05/15/85)
I recommend Anne McCaffrey's books, particularly the seven "Pern" stories. Her characters, male or female, are always well-developed and three dimensional, and there is a good equal share of either gender as the protagonist. Paul Anderson UC San Diego --------------------------------------------------------- "Scorch it!"
arnold@ucsfcgl.UUCP (Ken Arnold%CGL) (05/16/85)
> > Are there any authors who don't fall into this trap? Who write about > > believable protagonists (not just antagonists) who are of either sex? > > Anne McCaffrey and Ursula LeGuin (although LeGuin is less fantasy) > come to mind. Can't think of any men. Hmm... John Varley's "Titan", "Wizard", "Daemon" series has strong lead female characters, believable to me and to many female friends of mine. That's one man, at least. Ken Arnold
chabot@miles.DEC (Bits is bits) (05/19/85)
I can think of piles of authors: Pamela C. Dean, Steve Brust, Patricia C. Wrede, Will Shetterly (4 young, new fantasy writers), Sherri Tepper (the stories of Mavis ManyShaped are wonderful, and yes, that passage where Mavis explains to her little brother about why women don't like rape is *marvelous*; also _The_ Revenants_ is a vivid fantasy whose protagnist is male and female (changes every-so-often)), James Tiptree Jr, C J Cherryh (although I have a friend who objects to her male characters since they have self-doubt!), R. A. MacAvoy ... hmmm, these are all fantasy/science-fiction writers, and that might not be to your taste. Okay, how about James Faulkner (the chapter from Addie in _As_I_Lay_Dying_ is devastating), George Elliot (at least, _Middlemarch_ is excellent, if rather long), Charlotte and Emily and Anne Bronte, George Meredith, Henry James, ... There. I thought of 5 men. I give up. These are favorites of mine. There are many authors I enjoy who can't write believable female protagnists, and I wince a lot and complain. One thing I always hate are the stories where all the adventuring is done by male characters. This happens a lot in kids books. Ack! I remember reading lots of books where a boy rode off in a spaceship, but the only female I can remember is Miss Pickering--and she was elderly. Well, these days things are getting better: there are new authors who don't think they have to make the character male so that people will believe the story--some don't even disguise their first names. L S Chabot ...decwrl!dec-amber!dec-rhea!chabot chabot%amber.dec@decwrl.arpa
jcp@osiris.UUCP (Jody Patilla) (05/22/85)
> > Okay, how about James Faulkner (the chapter from Addie in _As_I_Lay_Dying_ is > devastating), George Elliot (at least, _Middlemarch_ is excellent, if rather > long), Charlotte and Emily and Anne Bronte, George Meredith, Henry James, ... > > > L S Chabot ...decwrl!dec-amber!dec-rhea!chabot chabot%amber.dec@decwrl.arpa You mean *William* Faulkner. Also, it's George Eliot with one 'l', and SHE also wrote "Silas Marner" and other long boring novels. -- jcpatilla "'Fancy thinking the Beast was something you could hunt and kill !'"