beth@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (Beth Christy) (05/25/85)
In Message <698@teklds.UUCP> dougs@teklds.UUCP (Doug Schwartz) writes: >You must be joking. One of the commandments of martial arts is that if >you have gotten yourself in a situation where you must use a weapon you >don't try this "shoot em in the knee/gouge em in the eye" b*ullsh*t >you see on TV. It's too damn easy to screw up and miss. If you are >cornered by someone go for their torso and pull the trigger until they drop. >It's better if you blow them away than if you just wound them -- less hassle. It's frightening to realize that people who think that "it's better to blow them away than wound them" are in fact the ones who are most likely to survive. Longevity notwithstanding, however, I *DO NOT* agree. *IF* the attacker does not run at the sight of the gun, and *IF* the attacker does not run when you fire a shot near (but not through) his head, and *IF* the attacker does not run when you shoot at his legs/feet, *MAYBE* then you should "blow him away". *NOT* before. Certainly not *FIRST*. Not that I wouldn't want to, mind you. There's a large chunk of my heart that would dearly love to rid the face of the earth of all the vile scum I can. But the whole rest of me just can't live with the idea of "blowing them away on sight". That's the mindset that cost us a helluva lot of native Americans. I'm not saying that budding young rapists and native Americans are equal in any sense. But the "blow 'em away as a *first* resort" attitude is equally repulsive in either case. >Also, you better be prepared to use a weapon if you exhibit it. *That* I agree with. >Get some martial arts training and some time in at the firing range That too. >Doug Schwartz -- --JB "The giant is awake." Disclaimer? Who wud claim dis?
sean@ukma.UUCP (Sean Casey) (05/25/85)
A good point to consider is that if you blow 'em away, that's one less witness.
--
- Sean Casey UUCP: {cbosgd,anlams,hasmed}!ukma!sean
- Department of Mathematics ARPA: ukma!sean@ANL-MCS.ARPA
- University of Kentuckyjla@usl.UUCP (Joe Arceneaux) (05/28/85)
In article <557@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP> beth@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (Beth Christy) writes: > >In Message <698@teklds.UUCP> dougs@teklds.UUCP (Doug Schwartz) writes: >>You must be joking. One of the commandments of martial arts is that if >>you have gotten yourself in a situation where you must use a weapon you >>don't try this "shoot em in the knee/gouge em in the eye" b*ullsh*t >>you see on TV. It's too damn easy to screw up and miss. If you are >>cornered by someone go for their torso and pull the trigger until they drop. >>It's better if you blow them away than if you just wound them -- less hassle. > >It's frightening to realize that people who think that "it's better to >blow them away than wound them" are in fact the ones who are most likely >to survive. Longevity notwithstanding, however, I *DO NOT* agree. *IF* >the attacker does not run at the sight of the gun, and *IF* the attacker >does not run when you fire a shot near (but not through) his head, and >*IF* the attacker does not run when you shoot at his legs/feet, *MAYBE* >then you should "blow him away". *NOT* before. Certainly not *FIRST*. But what if the assailent is going to try to fight you for the gun? Or what if it's a hand-to-hand fight? While I completely agree that *unnecessary* violence should be avoided if possible, sometimes it's just too risky to not "blow the person away." I think the action depends on the situation, but that it's better to err on the safe side (safe for the defender). -- Joe Arceneaux Lafayette, LA {akgua, ut-sally}!usl!jla
lambe@csd2.UUCP (Susan Lambe) (05/28/85)
>.... *IF* the attacker does not run when you fire a shot near > (but not through) his head ... Where does the bullet that goes by (but not through) the attackers head go? Into the head of someone passing by? Susan Lambe
slb@uvacs.UUCP (slb) (05/29/85)
> > It's frightening to realize that people who think that "it's better to > blow them away than wound them" are in fact the ones who are most likely > to survive. Longevity notwithstanding, however, I *DO NOT* agree. *IF* > the attacker does not run at the sight of the gun, and *IF* the attacker > does not run when you fire a shot near (but not through) his head, and > *IF* the attacker does not run when you shoot at his legs/feet, *MAYBE* > then you should "blow him away". *NOT* before. Certainly not *FIRST*. > >Doug Schwartz > > -- > > --JB "The giant is awake." > Just how much time do you think you will have to react when attacked???? (Excuse me, rapist sir, I have to search through my purse for a gun - see, I have a gun. Now you run away. No? Well here, take this shot in your direction...) The fact is, if you choose to carry a gun, you *MIGHT* get a few seconds to get your hands on it, you *MIGHT* even get to aim it, but you will probably only get those few seconds before you are either separated from it or incapacitated by an attacker who now fears for his/her life. Shoot for the knees??? You must be kidding. Standing perfectly still, being careful to breathe slowly, and using both hands to cradle the gun steadily, I can *usually* hit a target at 25 yards with the sort of gun that fits in a purse. You guys watch too much TV. The only gun with which you are likely to hit an attacker is a 12G shotgun, and they won't fit in a purse :-). False security, anyone? sandy !uvacs!slb
sunny@sun.uucp (Ms. Sunny Kirsten) (05/29/85)
What is not necessarily obvious is that: Those most likely to need a gun to defend themselves (women) Are psychologically the least likely to cary or use one. "God created men, and Colt made them equal": Women are the most likely to need the mechanical advantage of a weapon to give them a fair chance in a fight for their rights against some (typically) male assailant. Women are (typically) raised to be yielding and non-combative (social conditioning) and are (by virtue of their hormonal systems) more passive and less assertive/aggressive than their male counterparts. Left as an exercise for the reader: Poll a local sample of men and women and (I think) you'll find: Men are typically ready and willing to fight for their rights, and to do so in a final way: "Blow them away". Women are typically hesitant to deal with fire arms at all (Why should I stoop to his level and respond to violence with violence?) and more likely to be conciliatory (I'd try to warn him off or only to injure him, rather than going for an immediate kill). Because of these psychological factors, even those few women willing to carry a gun are unlikely to use them (effectively), and even those who try to use them are likely to "lose" in a confrontation by failure to "go for the throat", with a resultant loss (in a scuffle) of the use of the advantage they had by carrying a firearm. Advice to women: Don't carry a firearm unless you know deep in your heart that you are ready and willing to "blow them away" in defense of your rights, because if you don't have that conviction, you'll only succeed in escalating to a deadly level, a situation which otherwise might not be a life or death struggle. An aside: Almost all of my comments above about a woman's psychological mindset about her williingness to use violence in defence of her rights can be thrown out for almost any woman who's ever been raped. Better judged by 12 than carried by 6. Sunny > > In Message <698@teklds.UUCP> dougs@teklds.UUCP (Doug Schwartz) writes: > >You must be joking. One of the commandments of martial arts is that if > >you have gotten yourself in a situation where you must use a weapon you > >don't try this "shoot em in the knee/gouge em in the eye" b*ullsh*t > >you see on TV. It's too damn easy to screw up and miss. If you are > >cornered by someone go for their torso and pull the trigger until they drop. > >It's better if you blow them away than if you just wound them -- less hassle. > > It's frightening to realize that people who think that "it's better to > blow them away than wound them" are in fact the ones who are most likely > to survive. Longevity notwithstanding, however, I *DO NOT* agree. *IF* > the attacker does not run at the sight of the gun, and *IF* the attacker > does not run when you fire a shot near (but not through) his head, and > *IF* the attacker does not run when you shoot at his legs/feet, *MAYBE* > then you should "blow him away". *NOT* before. Certainly not *FIRST*. > > Not that I wouldn't want to, mind you. There's a large chunk of my > heart that would dearly love to rid the face of the earth of all the > vile scum I can. But the whole rest of me just can't live with the > idea of "blowing them away on sight". That's the mindset that cost us > a helluva lot of native Americans. I'm not saying that budding young > rapists and native Americans are equal in any sense. But the "blow 'em > away as a *first* resort" attitude is equally repulsive in either case. > > >Also, you better be prepared to use a weapon if you exhibit it. > > *That* I agree with. > > >Get some martial arts training and some time in at the firing range > > That too. > > >Doug Schwartz > > -- > > --JB "The giant is awake." > > Disclaimer? Who wud claim dis? *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** -- {ucbvax,decvax,ihnp4}!sun!sunny (Ms. Sunny Kirsten)
david@tekig.UUCP (David Hayes) (05/29/85)
> > In Message <698@teklds.UUCP> dougs@teklds.UUCP (Doug Schwartz) writes: > >You must be joking. One of the commandments of martial arts is that if > >you have gotten yourself in a situation where you must use a weapon you > >don't try this "shoot em in the knee/gouge em in the eye" b*ullsh*t > >you see on TV. It's too damn easy to screw up and miss. If you are > >cornered by someone go for their torso and pull the trigger until they drop. > >It's better if you blow them away than if you just wound them -- less hassle. > > does not run when you fire a shot near (but not through) his head, and > *IF* the attacker does not run when you shoot at his legs/feet, *MAYBE* > then you should "blow him away". *NOT* before. Certainly not *FIRST*. > I cannot imagine myself in this situation since I don't even own a gun, but a friend of mine is a county policeman(person) and his instructions are DON'T PULL OUT YOUR GUN UNLESS YOU INTEND TO USE IT. IF YOU SHOOT, SHOOT TO KILL. If you do not take advantage of your situation, you might, in the long run be right........DEAD RIGHT. dave
robertp@weitek.UUCP (Robert Plamondon) (05/30/85)
I've heard the idea that handguns can be used for self-defense by plinking
away at the attackers hands, feet, etc. several times now -- always from
people who have no skill with firearms.
There are several problems with this:
1. YOU'RE GOING TO MISS. Pistol shooting is difficult; people often miss
their targets even at very close range. Under stress, they're even more
likely to miss. People who know what they're doing aim at the torso,
because it's the biggest target.
The point, by the way, is not that you're trying to kill him. Shooting him
in the torso still gives him an excellent chance of survival. But doing
fancy shooting that GUARANTEES his survival places YOUR survival in jeopardy.
2. HE'S GOING TO KILL YOU. (Note: using the male pronoun for the general
case is not necessarily favorable to men!) You start emptying your pistol in
the general direction of your attacker's arms and legs, and he's going to
cross the ten feet between you in NO TIME AT ALL and kill you. These
encounters always occur at extremely short range, since victims find it
difficult to muster deadly force when their attacker is far away.
Any pause, any time spent trying to convince him that you're serious will
give him time to close with you. And then you're dead.
3. YOU HAVE TO BE READY TO KILL. A typical way for a mugger or rapist to
win against someone with a gun is to keep saying variations of, "You've got
me all wrong; it's all a mistake" while he gets closer and closer... If
you're not DETERMINED to shoot if necessary, if you're not willing to blow
him away as he moves up with his length of pipe and his line of patter,
you've had it. Even silent attackers do pretty well, since people tend to
hesitate until its too late. If you're not ready to kill, you're dogmeat.
4. KEEP PULLING THE TRIGGER. A furious, slightly wounded attacker is not
what you want. After you pull the trigger, keep pumping rounds into your
attacker until he's no longer moving in your direction.
TV tends to show guns as magic talismans that save people. In real life,
they're tools for KILLING PEOPLE. They aren't effective unless you're
willing to turn a living, breathing human being into a pile of carrion.
And if you're not willing to face this, don't go around armed.
--
-- Robert Plamondon
{ucbvax!dual!turtlevax,ihnp4!resonex}!weitek!robertp