mccolm@ucla-cs.UUCP (05/17/85)
<Recipe for Athletes' tongue: open mouth, insert foot, chew vigorously>
This is kind of long, so settle down and get comfortable, or use the old "q".
Now that the subject's come up, and the usual responses have come out, we
should try to form some kind of new opinions about the role of rape in
society, and how to *deal* with the crisis.
(Note: rape is a crisis, not a problem. Just because it's been around for
thousands of years doesn't mean it's less serious.)
The porpose of rape, it has been mentioned, is to create a situation in
which an insecure male may humiliate/dominate/abuse/etc/etc a female by
virtue (or vice) of their respective genders. I see two entirely different
but related causes of rape: (Correct me if you disagree)
1) It is mentally gratifying to the rapist to see a woman (representative
of all women) humiliated. I see this as not terribly different from
the victor of a duel forcing the loser to eat excrement, except that
you can recover from dysentery. I've heard that a woman never recovers
from rape.
This brings up the side-issue of why soldiers rape women in a country
the soldiers conquer, and that the severity seems to be related to the
difficulty of the war. The cause is possibly a desire to humiliate
a member of "the enemy". Any sociologists care to comment?
2) It is physically gratifying to the rapist. This cannot be denied, but
it seems to be less important. It does, however, contribute one
terrifying agent: a man may rape women once, or some numbert of times,
because of (1), but then continues because he *enjoys* it. It becomes
an act which is pleasureable physically, and so he may become *addicted*
to this course of behavior. He still believes that (1) is the real
reason, and it is, but only in part.
This may account for the claim (probably originated by a rapist, for
reasons explainable only to those who understand the male ego) that
the victim enjoys rape. The rapist enjoys it, and because he thinks
of himself as a great lover (most men do) he is *sure* that she enjoyed
it as well. But this stems not from the male perception of women,
at least directly, so much as from the male perception of himself.
The rapist may actually become psychologically dependent on the idea
that his victim is enjoying the act of rape.
I claim that the 1 in 3 college freshmen who would rape a woman if they
thought they could get away with it (and *really*should* know better)
for the most part would also hire a prostitute if she didn't charge much
and he knew she wasn't a cop. I claim that most of these ignoramuses
really want sex, not to humiliate a woman. Rapes committed by such people
as these can be most easily prevented simply through education programs.
The effects of rape in society are common and pervasive, and universally
negative. I will indulge in a hackneyed phrase: Women live in fear of
being raped. The reason this phrase has been around so long is that
everyone who looks at the issue arrives at the same conclusion. Women
are afraid of being alone in strange places, or familiar places; in short
women are afraid that even now, some deranged male with unimaginable
motives is out there. This affects everything from deciding on transpor-
tation to facing down the boss when he's wrong. It has the effect of
keeping women "in line", which means "in line with men's beliefs and
expectations". A woman faces the possibility that if she offends
too many men, one of them may be a rapist. But how many is too many?
I would bet that too many is not a terribly large number at all.
But what of men's views of women and rape? This is a tough one for me,
because my views on rape are probably not typical. Most men (I hope)
are not rapists. But the actions of the few, and their sheer amount
of activity, affects the behavior of all women toward all men. And there
is *NO* way to tell which of a roomfull of men are rapists, if any.
The safe course is to assume they all are. The book mentioned in a
previous article (asserting a conspiracy of societal forces) probably
deals with just this: any man *physically* could be a rapist, and as
for mentally, some could and some could not, but there's no way to tell.
(I haven't read the book, so the above is my opinion only)
I have stated in few words the wide-reaching effects of rape on women.
Suffice it to say that there are few elements of a womans life, I would
guess, that are unaffected. What the effects are, I can hardly imagine.
But what should be done about rape? Many people have proposed ideas for
new punishments for rape (stocks, castration, branding, etc.) but the
real problem is the rapist is rarely caught, and if he is, the woman may
be in for a mauling when the case goes to trial. The idea of deterrence
does not strike me as effective because rape is essentially an irrational
act (see 1 & 2 above) more like ritual murder than embezzling. So the
proper course of action, in my opinion, is prevention, not punishment.
Historical note: in the middle ages, women were considered property, so
rape was considered a *serious* crime. But rapists didn't stop.
How? Education would help, but only so much. It might prevent most rapes,
which would be nice, but not enough. The theme of "A Clockwork Orange"
could be used on the real tough ones that get caught, but you have to
catch them first. A curfew on either men or women seems to me to be
a proposal with negative connotations, and may be useful *only* because
it's effective. (Side note: women live under an understood, by both men
and women, curfew. The reason most women are raped in their homes is
most women are in their homes most of the time. As a defence, it's not
good enough.) But let's borrow a lesson from history. The vast majority
of social advances have been made by the people, who up and decided to
do essentially small things, all together, that caused essentially small
changes. Periods of "great change" in history merely mean that there were
more of these small changes going on.
This is my perception of the activities of the women's movement as well.
(Corrections are welcome) To achieve an end, a large group of women act
as if it was achieved, and after a lot of blood, sweat, toil, tears, and
lawsuits, voila, it's achieved. Petitions and protests are effective
only if those in power will do something in response to the petitions and
protests. On this issue, those in power haven't a clue about what to do.
Old statement: "Humans were not given fire; we took it." I suggest that
the answer to rape is for all women, and I do mean all women, to take a
line of action that is essentially small, but will make raping women
*extremely*dangerous* or at least difficult.
One friend of mine, a woman, suggested that if women had evolved functional
teeth in their labia, rape wouldn't be a problem. This is exactly the kind
of thing that would work; unfortunately, no such thing. Any ideas?
-fini-
Eric McColm
UCLA (oo' - kluh) Funny Farm for the Criminally Harmless
UUCP: ...!{ihnp4,trwspp,cepu,ucbvax,sdcrdcf}!ucla-cs!mccolm
ARPA: (still) mccolm@UCLA-CS.ARPA (soon) mccolm@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU
Q1: "The world is round. Forever. With all else, it's up to us."
Q2: "Reason is Peace; Fanaticism is Slavery; Tolerance is Strength."edhall@randvax.UUCP (Ed Hall) (05/20/85)
> I claim that the 1 in 3 college freshmen who would rape a woman if they > thought they could get away with it (and *really*should* know better) > for the most part would also hire a prostitute if she didn't charge much > and he knew she wasn't a cop. I claim that most of these ignoramuses > really want sex, not to humiliate a woman. Rapes committed by such people > as these can be most easily prevented simply through education programs. I think you are missing the point entirely: there is something very, very wrong in a society where a sizeable percentage of men would rape ``if they could get away with it''. We aren't talking sex, here, but A TOTAL DISREGARD FOR THE WOMAN INVOLVED. Yet you talk about rape here as if it were merely some nasty form of masturbation. All the arguments I've seen excusing this 1-out-of-3 finding seem to miss the point--it doesn't matter one whit whether or not these men would rape if they actually had the opportunity. The ghastly thing is that they even could conceive of themselves raping. Not fantasizing about it, but *doing* it. > Old statement: "Humans were not given fire; we took it." I suggest that > the answer to rape is for all women, and I do mean all women, to take a > line of action that is essentially small, but will make raping women > *extremely*dangerous* or at least difficult. One friend of mine, a > woman, suggested that if women had evolved functional teeth in their > labia, rape wouldn't be a problem. This is exactly the kind of thing > that would work; unfortunately, no such thing. Any ideas? There is NO solution other than changing men's attitudes towards women. This cannot be repeated too much. Why make women responsible for stopping rape? This is not to suggest women shouldn't take precautions, but your ``suggestion'' seems to be that this is some sort of solution to the problem. It's not. It is no more of a ``solution'' than a curfew for men. I'd respond more, but quite honestly I doubt I could show much restraint. When I read your article, with what seemed to be an incredibly andro- centric view of rape, complete with some of the same myths and apologia that have plagued this issue for so long, I was quite literally shaking and speachless. The lurid speculations about the ``pleasurable addiction'' of being a rapist didn't help. To your credit, you accurately portray some of the outcomes of the existance of rape in society. And I have to give you the benifit of the doubt and assume that you really are searching for a better understanding of just what rape is. > -fini- > > Eric McColm -Ed Hall decvax!randvax!edhall
dupuy@columbia.UUCP (Alex Dupuy) (05/21/85)
In article <5492@ucla-cs.ARPA> mccolm@ucla-cs.UUCP writes: > >One friend of mine, a woman, suggested that if women had evolved functional >teeth in their labia, rape wouldn't be a problem. This is exactly the kind >of thing that would work; unfortunately, no such thing. Any ideas? >-fini- > >Eric McColm This sounds like it would be a solution, but in a number of rape cases which I have read about, the woman was forced to perform oral sex (fellatio). Apparently the rapists weren't too worried about teeth when they had guns or knives. @alex
mccolm@ucla-cs.UUCP (05/24/85)
<Either read this article carefully, or don't read it at all.>
I seem to have been the target of a kettle of bedroom slops from Ed Hall.
I am, I admit, whistling in the dark about some claims I made vis-a-vis
women, society, and rape, but hardly enough to have brought so vitriolic
and personal a return.
I made many claims about the mental state of a rapist. This is my under-
standing of the mental state of the rapist, and is not meant to be an
expression of my own point of view. Mr. Hall was apparently offended by
what I conjectured. To this, I return: The mental state of a rapist is
likely to be repugnant.
But the mental state of a rapist must be internally consistent, at least
on some level. So if we as a people could determine the motivations and
beliefs that rapists held, we might see some chance of doing away with
the travesty of rape forever.
But I am disturbed that there was an equating of my suggestion that women
take action to deter rape, and the laying of responsibility for rape on
women. It seems to me obvious that women did not invent rape, nor do
women perpetuate it, so women do not in any way share blame in it. But
women are the victims of rape, and so they have a vested interest in seeing
rape end. At once.
My suggestion proceeds from a policy of cynicism. If after >>5000 years of
this sort of treatment by men, can women seriously expect men to suddenly
stop? To my mind, any idea proposed by a man is suspect. (Think how that
makes ME feel.) An alternative is to deal with the problem directly.
While it is men's responsibility to end rape, it is not the men who will
pay for the delay.
And as for my claim about the Freshmen saying rape when they really want
sex, I can only conclude that it was not understood. I do not believe
these men actually wished to dominate, humiliate, and abuse a
woman as a rape ACTUALLY WOULD. I believe they speak from an ignorance
as pervasive as it is unforgivable. But their ignorance indicates to me
that an education program to teach men to respect women could have a
positive effect. If these men had been taught to respect women, they
would find it unthinkable to rape a woman.
As I have said before, however, education alone is not the answer. The
rapes would be decreased, but not eliminated. It needs more. As long
as a single woman lives in fear of rape, whether by a friend, husband,
acquaintance, or stranger, all men are guilty of domination.
As men, our guilt is collective if we continue to do nothing to end rape.
None of us are free of it, and the argument that "I have never raped a
woman" is no defense. We benefit materially by our collective domination
over women, whether by design, or by a conspiracy of societal forces that
our male ancestors initiated.
--fini--
Eric McColm
UCLA (oo' - kluh) Funny Farm for the Criminally Harmless
UUCP: ...!{ihnp4,trwspp,cepu,ucbvax,sdcrdcf}!ucla-cs!mccolm
ARPA: (still) mccolm@UCLA-CS.ARPA (someday) mccolm@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU
"Scrabble is Peace; Link-Sausage is Slavery; UNIX is Strength."jeffw@tekecs.UUCP (Jeff Winslow) (05/29/85)
Generally, I have good feelings about your article, Eric, but... > As I have said before, however, education alone is not the answer. The > rapes would be decreased, but not eliminated. It needs more. As long > as a single woman lives in fear of rape, whether by a friend, husband, > acquaintance, or stranger, all men are guilty of domination. Oh, cut it out. Do you think we can't understand the issue without this kind of ultra-idealistic hyperbole? > As men, our guilt is collective if we continue to do nothing to end rape. No, our *guilt* is non-existent, but our *responsibility* may well be collective. It's a distinction that is useful when you're trying to get someone to cooperate with you (as opposed to just beating them, verbally or otherwise, about the head and shoulders). > None of us are free of it, and the argument that "I have never raped a > woman" is no defense. We benefit materially by our collective domination > over women, whether by design, or by a conspiracy of societal forces that > our male ancestors initiated. We DO ????????????????????????????? I see no benefit to any man who cares about women. Jeff Winslow
london@oddjob.UUCP (David London) (05/31/85)
<> >>Eric (I must have missed this article) > Jeff Winslow >> As men, our guilt is collective if we continue to do nothing to end rape. >No, our *guilt* is non-existent, but our *responsibility* may well be >collective. It's a distinction that is useful when you're trying >to get someone to cooperate with you (as opposed to just beating them, >verbally or otherwise, about the head and shoulders). Agreed, but it's tough to find a word - guilt, blame, responsibility all have different connotations to different people. In any event, I do agree with the sentiment of "collective responsibility". >> None of us are free of it, and the argument that "I have never raped a >> woman" is no defense. We benefit materially by our collective domination >> over women, whether by design, or by a conspiracy of societal forces that >> our male ancestors initiated. >We DO ????????????????????????????? I see no benefit to any man who cares about women. No, I agree with Eric - we do. Two examples: if you and a woman apply for a job and the woman is turned down just because she is a woman, you get the job. This happens all the time, and, if you were in this situation, you would never know about it. Secondly, although I don't know what profession you're in, it's likely you are in a scientific field of some sort (at least I assume - tektronix?). When you were growing up, girls were discouraged from pursuing areas of a scientific bent, so you had a better opportunity to get where you are today (for all I know, you may not think it's such great shakes :-). I'm sure you can think of many such examples. David London ..!ihnp4!oddjob!london