brian@digi-g.UUCP (Merlyn Leroy) (05/30/85)
>Feminists repeatedly insist that the choice of clothing has *nothing* >to do with the likelihood of being raped. I haven't been shown much in >the way of evidence... > David Canzi I think you have the sense of proof backwards. I mean, nobody has proved that wearing red *doesn't* incite rape. Does this mean I should assume it does? Actually, considering that most rapists don't rape total strangers (usually someone they've seen before/know/met/etc) and that rape victims are anywhere from 1 to 99 years old, "provocative-ness" seems to have very little to do with it. Of course, proof that it *does* is welcome, but I will minimize my assumptions, thank you. Merlyn Leroy Men could fly before women could vote.
dmcanzi@watdcsu.UUCP (David Canzi) (06/01/85)
In article <630@digi-g.UUCP> brian@digi-g.UUCP (brian) writes: >>Feminists repeatedly insist that the choice of clothing has *nothing* >>to do with the likelihood of being raped. I haven't been shown much in >>the way of evidence... >> David Canzi > >I think you have the sense of proof backwards. I mean, nobody has proved >that wearing red *doesn't* incite rape. Does this mean I should assume it >does? You are missing my point, or perhaps ignoring it. I have not been saying that the choice of clothing affects the likelihood of rape. What I have been saying is that the feminist side appear to be *certain* that clothing has *no* *effect* on the likelihood of rape, yet they appear to have no evidence sufficient to back up such certainty. When feminists are asked how they know, they usually make some reply about the motives of rapists in using that statement, or they question the motives and morality of the questioner. On the occasions that I've actually seen evidence given, it has been inadequate evidence. I see certainty of belief, combined with insufficient evidence, and a strong motive for believing. Probable explanation: wishful thinking. >Actually, considering that most rapists don't rape total strangers (usually >someone they've seen before/know/met/etc) and that rape victims are >anywhere from 1 to 99 years old, "provocative-ness" seems to have very >little to do with it. To say that a young woman in a miniskirt is more likely to be raped than a 90 year old woman wearing a burlap sack does not imply that the young woman will be raped, or that the old woman won't. Likelihood is a statistical concept, and can't be disproven with a handful of counterexamples. It can only be disproven by statistical methods. A similar line of faulty reasoning would be to point out that your uncle Harry chain-smoked from the age of 15 and lived to be 105, therefore smoking is harmless. >Of course, proof that it *does* is welcome, but I will minimize my >assumptions, thank you. In answer to the question "Does the choice of clothing affect the likelihood of rape", I suspect that you would answer "no". This is an assumption. Saying "I don't know" would involve one less assumption. -- David Canzi A dollar is better than nothing. Nothing is better than the love of God. Therefore, a dollar is better than the love of God.
zubbie@ihlpa.UUCP (Jeanette Zobjeck) (06/06/85)
> > What I have been saying is that the feminist side appear to be > *certain* that clothing has *no* *effect* on the likelihood of rape, > yet they appear to have no evidence sufficient to back up such > certainty. > > When feminists are asked how they know, they usually make some reply > about the motives of rapists in using that statement, or they question > the motives and morality of the questioner. On the occasions that I've > actually seen evidence given, it has been inadequate evidence. > > -- > David Canzi > *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** There is no real argument that choice of clothing may possibly contribute to inciting a rape the argument is that it should not matter what anyone wears because there is no train of logic which can be followed which can show that rape was either necessary. In other words my right to dress as I feel and to enjoy my life as I see fit is no writ to anyone to rape me and I refuse to sit back and let anyone from someone on this net to a judge in a coutroom validate a rape as inevitable because of the manner of dress of the victim, The motives of the rapist and his appolgists are quite obvious. If sex is allowed as a reason for rape AND if manner or style of dress can be shown to arouse sexual drives well then it is obvious that A) The woman was **ASKING FOR IT ** B) The poor guy just couldn't help himself because the woman was dressed in a manner which aroused him to a point beyond hid rational ability to control himself. C) Since the poor guy is obviously not mentally stable because he cant control himself we should feel compassion for him and at worst lock him in a funny farm for life but never **NEVER** be willing to admit that rape is a capital crime for which even the death penealty is too soft. I strongly support making rape punishable by : 1st offense : life imprisonment 2nd offense : death preferably by "cruel and unusual means" jeanette l. zobjeck ihnp4!ihlpa!zubbie ================================================================================ all opinions expressed here belong to me! entertain them yourself at your own risk! ================================================================================