beth@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (Beth Christy) (06/06/85)
From: jeffw@tekecs.UUCP (Jeff Winslow), Message-ID: <5369@tekecs.UUCP>: >I assume from your long reply detailing the horrors of rape that you >disagree with geoff's assertion that murder is worse than rape. > >I have a simple question, the answer to which may spread a little >understanding (then again, it may not). > >Would you really just as soon be killed as raped? I would appreciate a >thoughtful and serious answer. > >As you point out, being a man, I deal with the subject in the abstract. >But sometimes distance gives you better perspective. And then again, >sometimes not. > > Jeff Winslow As you can tell from the article to which you're responding, I think rape is a pretty devastating thing. It's true that there are women who eventually recover from it (by now you've read a couple of articles from such women), and I would NEVER, EVER say that it would be better for them to have been killed. But recovering from a rape to the point where one can again lead a normal life, and have normal, healthy, *necessary* relationships with the men around you, *requires* a strength so far beyond any I've ever seen under any other circumstances that it's almost beyond my comprehension. And finding that strength that you need just to be able to move again is such an *agonizing* process, and it almost always takes *years*, and I've been hurt so deeply just watching people I've cared about go thru it, that I'm just not at all sure that I could go thru it myself. Having never been either raped or murdered, I can't say for sure which I'd really prefer. But if I was ever threatened with rape, I think that I'd fight like I'm willing to risk being killed. I think that's what I meant when I said I'd rather be murdered than raped. And I said it in response to someone who said that "murder is worse than rape" so blithely that I wanted to be sure that he understood what it was he was talking about, and that that ranking is not necessarily obvious to people who've had to deal with the reality of rape. We may ultimately agree with his ranking, but it requires more thought than he seemed to be giving it. I think the distance in this case *prevents* a realistic per- spective. I'd really like for men in general to really understand what it means to be raped, and to give the women who've just survived it, let alone recovered from it, credit for having strength beyond any they could possibly imagine. And, of course, to help us fight like hell to end it forever. I think that's as thoughtful a response as I can give you. I hope it suffices. -- --JB Life is just a bowl.
crs@lanl.ARPA (06/10/85)
I am not trying to minimize the horror of rape nor am I trying to poke fun at your views. You obviously feel very deeply about the matter. I agree that rape is a horrible crime. I also understand your point about being willing to fight, risking death, to avoid rape. BUT... I don't believe that *anyone* has *ever* recovered from being murdered. > But recovering from a rape to the point where > one can again lead a normal life, and have normal, healthy, *necessary* > relationships with the men around you, *requires* a strength so far > beyond any I've ever seen under any other circumstances that it's almost > beyond my comprehension. And finding that strength that you need just > to be able to move again is such an *agonizing* process, and it almost > always takes *years*, and I've been hurt so deeply just watching people > I've cared about go thru it, that I'm just not at all sure that I could > go thru it myself. Having never been either raped or murdered, I can't > say for sure which I'd really prefer. But if I was ever threatened with > rape, I think that I'd fight like I'm willing to risk being killed. I > think that's what I meant when I said I'd rather be murdered than raped. I repeat, I respect your belief that you would rather risk death fighting off a potential rapist than submit to rape. I hope you never have to test that belief. (I mean that sincerely, not as any suggestion that your belif is unfounded.) > > And I said it in response to someone who said that "murder is worse than > rape" so blithely that I wanted to be sure that he understood what it was > he was talking about, and that that ranking is not necessarily obvious to > people who've had to deal with the reality of rape. I'm sorry to say that I missed the original article so I can only conjecture. Perhaps the statement was made "so blithely" because the writer thought, as I do, that it is pretty obvious (for the reason I stated above, i.e. *no one* has ever recovered from murder). I don't think that that minimizes the horror of rape. It merely faces the reality that murder is forever. > We may ultimately > agree with his ranking, but it requires more thought than he seemed to be > giving it. One is rarely able to present the entire line of reasoning that leads to a conclusion, especially on the net. > I think the distance in this case *prevents* a realistic per- > spective. While I agree that the probability of rape is so much greater for women than for men that it is almost exclusively something that women face I don't agree with this sentence. To believe this, one must believe it necessary to be the victim of murder to have a "realistic perspective" about murder. Overstatement? Of course. But pick your own weaker case. I cannot agree that one cannot have a "realistic perspective" about murder without having been close to it and I cannot agree that one cannot have a "realistic perspective" about rape *just* because one is a man. > I'd really like for men in general to really understand what it > means to be raped, I couldn't agree more. Men *in general* probably don't understand and, probably, few men *really* understand but many of us try. I would like to see many more of us try. > and to give the women who've just survived it, let > alone recovered from it, credit for having strength beyond any they could > possibly imagine. And, of course, to help us fight like hell to end it > forever. > > I think that's as thoughtful a response as I can give you. I hope it > suffices. > > -- > > --JB Life is just a bowl. Charlie Sorsby ...!{cmcl2,ihnp4,...}!lanl!crs crs@lanl.arpa -- Charlie Sorsby ...!{cmcl2,ihnp4,...}!lanl!crs crs@lanl.arpa