sunny@sun.uucp (Ms. Sunny Kirsten) (06/14/85)
> In article <834@mnetor.UUCP>, sophie@mnetor.UUCP (Sophie Quigley) writes: > > > I have an idea that might help on the subject of rape > > > and abuse of women. Let's get a few more women judges > > > up there on the bench. I also think that the punishment > > > for these crimes should be decided by the victim not > > > the judge. > > > > > I once took a self-defense class. One of the speakers was > > a lawyer who had handled many rape cases. His comment was > > that the best jury a victim could hope for in such a case > > would be one with a majority of men who were about the > > same age as the victim's father. Another observation of > > his was that women jurors were often much harsher on the > > victim than men were, and were much more likely to believe > > claims that the womanwas"asking for it". > > > > If this is true, it is pretty sad. > > -- > > Sophie Quigley > > {allegra|decvax|ihnp4|linus|watmath}!utzoo!mnetor!sophie > > > SOPHIE, > You know that a lot of women are asking for it. I mean look during the > summer, tight shorts, no bras, big brown nipples showing. SHEEEEEIT. > (at least in california) > > Most of the time, the woman is unconsciously asking to be raped. > She takes no precautions, ie. walks alone in the night, and wears > provocative clothing. > > Larry G. Kim God forbid a *woman* be allowed to come and go as she please in cool clothes during the summer months without being reminded that her sole reason for existance is to be the passive object of some male's need to hyperinflate his fragile ego via domination and abuse of her. Larry, she *may* be interested in sex, but she still has the right to say no to whomever she pleases, whenever she pleases, without fear of being forced into sexual/violent slavery. i.e. you'll excuse me if I turn your analogy around and mistake you for a target next time I'm at the pistol range and you forget to wear a tshirt. I mean, you're just standing there asking for it. Sheeeeeit. Do NOT confuse rape (forced slavery) with willing submission. I can quote a married lady I know as having said: "Submission, I love it!" I can also assure you she has NO desire to submit to anyone but her husband. Likewise, many men enjoy being dominant. The fine line between dominance and rape is PERMISSION. Permission is revocable at ANY time. Therefore the following excuses for rape do not cut the mustard: I couldn't help myself, because she: 1) Was dressed that way 2) Led me on up to point X before saying "no". Which brings us to a whole 'nother angle of the dominance/submission game: When does "no" mean "yes"? No may mean: "Ask me again, I'm not really sure you really like me" or perhaps: "NO". In a verbal exchange "no" may seem ambiguous, but by the time any physical contact has been initiated, you'd probably damn well better believe that "no" means "no". So, to summarize a long story: It doesn't matter *what* she's wearing, she doesn't want to be raped. No matter who she is. Ever. Anywhere. At Any Time. No How. No Way. She may like submission, but she's got to know you well enough to trust you before that's workable. That takes a lot of dating. Can you see there's a difference? No? Nevvvver Mind! Go directly to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200. Stop the world. I want to get off... ...too many bozos on this bus... Sunny -- {ucbvax,decvax,ihnp4}!sun!sunny (Ms. Sunny Kirsten)
todd@SCINEWS.UUCP (Todd Jones) (06/19/85)
> > In article <834@mnetor.UUCP>, sophie@mnetor.UUCP (Sophie Quigley) writes: > Do NOT confuse rape (forced slavery) > with willing submission. > > I can quote a married lady I know as having said: "Submission, I love it!" > I can also assure you she has NO desire to submit to anyone but her husband. > > Likewise, many men enjoy being dominant. The fine line between dominance > and rape is PERMISSION. > Sunny- I agree with you basically, but why is this line fine? In a courtroom, attorneys may attempt to portray this distinction as fine, but to me permission is not grey or hazy, it is blunt. Now continue... > Permission is revocable at ANY time. > > Therefore the following excuses for rape do not cut the mustard: > > I couldn't help myself, because she: > 1) Was dressed that way > 2) Led me on up to point X before saying "no". > > Which brings us to a whole 'nother angle of the dominance/submission game: > > When does "no" mean "yes"? > > No may mean: "Ask me again, I'm not really sure you really like me" > or perhaps: "NO". > > In a verbal exchange "no" may seem ambiguous, but by the time any physical > contact has been initiated, you'd probably damn well better believe that > "no" means "no". > > So, to summarize a long story: > It doesn't matter *what* she's wearing, she doesn't want to be raped. > No matter who she is. Ever. Anywhere. At Any Time. No How. No Way. > By definition, a person can't want to be raped > She may like submission, but she's got to know you well enough to trust you > before that's workable. That takes a lot of dating. > > Can you see there's a difference? No? Nevvvver Mind! > > Go directly to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200. > > Stop the world. I want to get off... > > ...too many bozos on this bus... > > Sunny > > -- > {ucbvax,decvax,ihnp4}!sun!sunny (Ms. Sunny Kirsten) The preceding opinions are, in all likelihood, those of Todd Jones. However, these opinions will, in all certainty, bear scant resemblance to the opinions of SCI Systems, Inc., Mr. Jones' employer. ||||| || || [ O-O ] Todd Jones \ ^ / {decvax,akgua}!mcnc!rti-sel!scirtp!todd | _ | |___| FLAME ME IF YOU DARE!
edhall@randvax.UUCP (Ed Hall) (06/20/85)
> SOPHIE, > You know that a lot of women are asking for it. I mean look during the > summer, tight shorts, no bras, big brown nipples showing. SHEEEEEIT. > (at least in california) > > Most of the time, the woman is unconsciously asking to be raped. > She takes no precautions, ie. walks alone in the night, and wears > provocative clothing. > > Larry G. Kim Gad. I suspect that these women who dress coolly for summer weather think about the risk far more than your average man walking down the street with nary a stitch on his upper torso. I mean, how *provocative* can you get??? These men are ASKING FOR IT!!! Do I detect a slight disparity here? You betcha! -Ed Hall decvax!randvax!edhall