sed408@ihlpg.UUCP (s. dugan) (05/16/85)
> I have an idea that might help on the subject of rape > and abuse of women. Let's get a few more women judges > up there on the bench. I also think that the punishment > for these crimes should be decided by the victim not > the judge. > > I feel that life is too short for women to go through > it in fear that some asshole is gonna violate her. I > love women (I owe one nine months carrying charges) so > I am more that just a little angry about the abuse > stat.s. Also, I don't feel that a man should rape a > women even if she's walking around nude! Bravo! Hear, Hear! > > While I do believe that the women in this country have > it a little easier than women in some other countries, > I also believe the U.S. has a long way to go. Every > time I hear of some women getting beaten or raped I > get furious. A lot of the time there were other people > around who could have helped her but they didn't want > to get involved. I wish the police would take down > their names and next time they need help the cops > could say "I didn't wanna get involved". How about holding these people partially responsible for the crime. Perhaps we could fine them for not reporting the crime and/or stopping it. I don't think that we could require them to actually endanger themselves, but I do think we should try to get people more willing to speak up against crimes. > > Someone suggested letting women carry firearms. Sounds > good to me. Any of you ladies need firearms training? > I'll teach you to shoot if you live in the Chicago area. > Note, no smiley faces. So your solution to violence is more violence? I simply don't understand that frame of mind. The only effective way to stop violence is to not start it. "Let the buck stop here." Sure, it will take many generations. I know I won't be here to see it, but I'd like to think that my refusal to purposely harm other people might help someone else down the road. This is not to say that I wouldn't fight off someone trying to hurt me. I would and I have. However, I only used as much force as necessary to get him away from me. Then I ran as fast as I could. I see no point in blowing a hole in a person just because he's sick. That just brings me down to his level. I would rather work toward a healthier society that would be free of that kind of violence. Sarah E. Dugan (no clever lines)
san@peora.UUCP (Sanjay Tikku) (05/17/85)
> > I have an idea that might help on the subject of rape > > and abuse of women. Let's get a few more women judges > > up there on the bench. ... > > This is more of a social problem than anything and there is not much the law can do except to hand out punishments which act as deterrents for anyone contemplating the crime. In one of the countries the women groups put a lot of pressure on the legislators who decreed very stiff punishments for rape. There was more pressure and then the penalties became even stiffer and ultimately it was pointed out by some lawyers that the minimum penalty for rape was higher than minimum penalty for murder which did encourage some of the rapists to murder their victims after the rape. Also, it is kind of difficult to prosecute someone with a dead victim ( murder case) vs. with an alive victim ( rape case). The bottom line is that beyond acting as a deterrent the law cannot do much. It is the sickness in the society that has to be rooted out for an effective solution to this problem. > > A lot of the time there were other people > > around who could have helped her but they didn't want > > to get involved. I wish the police would take down > > their names and next time they need help the cops > > could say "I didn't wanna get involved". > > How about holding these people partially responsible for the crime. Perhaps > we could fine them for not reporting the crime and/or stopping it. I don't > think that we could require them to actually endanger themselves, but I do > think we should try to get people more willing to speak up against crimes. Well, most of the time people don't want to get involved because they will be hurt by the criminals too if they decide to testify etc. Intimidation tactics are not exactly uncommon. The person who decides to "be a witness" is badgered from the criminals as well as the law. Ask anyone who has decided to testify, as to how much trouble they have gotten into from the side of the law also. There is a need to improve the system to ensure security and non-harrassment of the "witnesses" and then more and more people will speak up. I don't think that majority of people are apathetic. Recently, there was a broad daylight shooting somewhere and there were about 20-25 people there but believe it or not, no one saw it !!!!. As the cops put it - they were temporarily blind. We definitely don't need such *blindness attacks*. > > Someone suggested letting women carry firearms. Sounds > > good to me. Any of you ladies need firearms training? > > I'll teach you to shoot if you live in the Chicago area. > > Note, no smiley faces. > Would you like to go thru what Mr. Bernard Goetz is going thru ? Think about it before considering the above suggestion seriously. sanjay ----- -- Full-Name: Sanjay Tikku UUCP: ..!{decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!vax135!petsd!peora!san CSnet: san%peora.UUCP@CSNET-RELAY USnail: MS 795; Perkin-Elmer SDC; 2486 Sand Lake Road, Orlando, FL 32809-7642 Tel: (305)850-1042-Off. ; (305)851-3700-Res.
beth@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (beth d. christy) (05/19/85)
In Message <485@ihlpg.UUCP> sed408@ihlpg.UUCP (s. dugan) writes: >> >> Someone suggested letting women carry firearms. Sounds >> good to me. Any of you ladies need firearms training? >> I'll teach you to shoot if you live in the Chicago area. >> Note, no smiley faces. > >So your solution to violence is more violence? I simply don't understand >that frame of mind. The only effective way to stop violence is to not start >it. "Let the buck stop here." Sure, it will take many generations. I know >I won't be here to see it, but I'd like to think that my refusal to >purposely harm other people might help someone else down the road. > >This is not to say that I wouldn't fight off someone trying to hurt me. I >would and I have. However, I only used as much force as necessary to get him >away from me. Then I ran as fast as I could. I see no point in blowing a >hole in a person just because he's sick. That just brings me down to his >level. I would rather work toward a healthier society that would be free of >that kind of violence. > > Sarah E. Dugan Self-defense is not violence. And having and knowing how to use a gun is not the same thing as "blowing a hole in a person". A bullet in the knee or foot is a relatively safe and effective way of using "as much force as necessary to get him away". Nobody said you have to aim for his face. And with a little luck, you won't have to fire it at all. There are not a lot of folks (even sick ones) who want to stick around and argue with a gun (but you better be knowledgable about using it anyway). -- --JB "The giant is awake." Disclaimer? Who wud claim dis?
sophie@mnetor.UUCP (Sophie Quigley) (05/20/85)
> I have an idea that might help on the subject of rape > and abuse of women. Let's get a few more women judges > up there on the bench. I also think that the punishment > for these crimes should be decided by the victim not > the judge. > I once took a self-defense class. One of the speakers was a lawyer who had handled many rape cases. His comment was that the best jury a victim could hope for in such a case would be one with a majority of men who were about the same age as the victim's father. Another observation of his was that women jurors were often much harsher on the victim than men were, and were much more likely to believe claims that the womanwas"asking for it". If this is true, it is pretty sad. -- Sophie Quigley {allegra|decvax|ihnp4|linus|watmath}!utzoo!mnetor!sophie
dougs@teklds.UUCP (Doug Schwartz) (05/20/85)
In article <521@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP> beth@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (beth d. christy) writes: >In Message <485@ihlpg.UUCP> sed408@ihlpg.UUCP (s. dugan) writes: >>> >>> Any of you ladies need firearms training? >>> I'll teach you to shoot if you live in the Chicago area. >> >>So your solution to violence is more violence? I simply don't understand >> >> Sarah E. Dugan > >Self-defense is not violence. And having and knowing how to use a gun is >not the same thing as "blowing a hole in a person". A bullet in the knee >or foot is a relatively safe and effective way of using "as much force as >necessary to get him away". Nobody said you have to aim for his face. And >with a little luck, you won't have to fire it at all. There are not a lot >of folks (even sick ones) who want to stick around and argue with a gun >(but you better be knowledgable about using it anyway). > >--JB "The giant is awake." You must be joking. One of the commandments of martial arts is that if you have gotten yourself in a situation where you must use a weapon you don't try this "shoot em in the knee/gouge em in the eye" b*ullsh*t you see on TV. It's too damn easy to screw up and miss. If you are cornered by someone go for their torso and pull the trigger until they drop. It's better if you blow them away than if you just wound them -- less hassle. Also, you better be prepared to use a weapon if you exhibit it. You would be embarrassed to be shot to death with your own pistol :-). Get some martial arts training and some time in at the firing range -- you'ld be surprised how inaccurate most people/pistol combinations are. Dirty Harry notwithstanding, most people couldn't hit an elephant at over 25-30 feet with a snub nosed .38. I've hunted all my life and am a veteran with many hours on the firing range, and I still would run like hell if someone tried to accost me -- even with my shotgun in hand (which I'll take hands down any day over a handgun). Doug Schwartz Beaverton Design Center CAE Systems Instrument Design Group Tektronix, Inc. Beaverton, OR. tektronix!teklds!dougs
rdz@ccice5.UUCP (Robert D. Zarcone) (05/21/85)
> > Self-defense is not violence. And having and knowing how to use a gun is > not the same thing as "blowing a hole in a person". A bullet in the knee > or foot is a relatively safe and effective way of using "as much force as > necessary to get him away". Nobody said you have to aim for his face. And > with a little luck, you won't have to fire it at all. There are not a lot > of folks (even sick ones) who want to stick around and argue with a gun > (but you better be knowledgable about using it anyway). > I just hope that if you try the above "trick" that you are an EXCELLENT marksman. I know a couple of regional target champions who claim this couldn't be done by the average person with pistol training under range conditions, let alone those that would be present in a confrontational one. I have a friend that is currently trying to convince his wife of this fact with little success. I guess she has seen to many movies to think rationally about this. BTW, you better have more than a "little" luck if your opponent is armed also. They won't be aiming for you knee! This posting is not meant to raise the gun control debate in another net. It is only meant to remind those who think they can defend themselves with firearms by fancy shooting that they can't. If you point a gun at someone you better be ready to use it. And if it's a hand gun at any thing more than close range, you better aim for the torso of your victim! *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
frye@cuuxa.UUCP (frye) (05/22/85)
I have an idea that might help on the subject of rape and abuse of women. Let's get a few more women judges up there on the bench. I also think that the punishment for these crimes should be decided by the victim not the judge. I feel that life is too short for women to go through it in fear that some asshole is gonna violate her. I love women (I owe one nine months carrying charges) so I am more that just a little angry about the abuse stat.s. Also, I don't feel that a man should rape a women even if she's walking around nude! While I do believe that the women in this country have it a little easier than women in some other countries, I also believe the U.S. has a long way to go. Every time I hear of some women getting beaten or raped I get furious. A lot of the time there were other people around who could have helped her but they didn't want to get involved. I wish the police would take down their names and next time they need help the cops could say "I didn't wanna get involved". Someone suggested letting women carry firearms. Sounds good to me. Any of you ladies need firearms training? I'll teach you to shoot if you live in the Chicago area. Note, no smiley faces. Note: The contents of this posting are the product of my mind and not my employer's. Look Ma, I just started beating the keyboard with my fist and look what came out---- the shootist, -tom frye-
cramer@kontron.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) (05/24/85)
> I have an idea that might help on the subject of rape > and abuse of women. Let's get a few more women judges > up there on the bench. I also think that the punishment > for these crimes should be decided by the victim not > the judge. > Nice idea, but those of us who live in California know better. Unfortunately, a great many women appointed to the bench have associated themselves politically with ideas like "society is responsible for crime". A good example is Rose Bird, Chief Justice of the California Supreme Court. One would expect that a women would be very sympathetic to a rape victim, and very unsympathetic to a rapist. One of the early cases that generated anger from the conservatives out here towards Rose Bird involved a rapist convicted of rape. Along with the rape charge had been added a charge of "causing great bodily harm". Rose Bird felt that the Legislature had inadequately defined "great bodily harm", and ordered a new trial. What had the rapist done that the jury felt constituted "great bodily harm"? He stuck a four-inch knife blade upto the hilt into her abdomen. Rose Bird didn't feel confident that the jury had made the right choice, even without a detailed definition of "great bodily harm". Sometimes, the biggest enemy a woman has in California, is a woman.
ee171ael@sdcc3.UUCP (GEOFFREY KIM) (06/13/85)
In article <834@mnetor.UUCP>, sophie@mnetor.UUCP (Sophie Quigley) writes: > > I have an idea that might help on the subject of rape > > and abuse of women. Let's get a few more women judges > > up there on the bench. I also think that the punishment > > for these crimes should be decided by the victim not > > the judge. > > > I once took a self-defense class. One of the speakers was > a lawyer who had handled many rape cases. His comment was > that the best jury a victim could hope for in such a case > would be one with a majority of men who were about the > same age as the victim's father. Another observation of > his was that women jurors were often much harsher on the > victim than men were, and were much more likely to believe > claims that the womanwas"asking for it". > > If this is true, it is pretty sad. > -- > Sophie Quigley > {allegra|decvax|ihnp4|linus|watmath}!utzoo!mnetor!sophie SOPHIE, You know that a lot of women are asking for it. I mean look during the summer, tight shorts, no bras, big brown nipples showing. SHEEEEEIT. (at least in california) Most of the time, the woman is unconsciously asking to be raped. She takes no precautions, ie. walks alone in the night, and wears provocative clothing. Larry G. Kim
glp@osu-eddie.UUCP (Georgia Pritchett) (06/16/85)
> In article <834@mnetor.UUCP>, sophie@mnetor.UUCP (Sophie Quigley) writes: > > > I have an idea that might help on the subject of rape > > > and abuse of women. Let's get a few more women judges > > > up there on the bench. I also think that the punishment > > > for these crimes should be decided by the victim not > > > the judge. > > > > > I once took a self-defense class. One of the speakers was > > a lawyer who had handled many rape cases. His comment was > > that the best jury a victim could hope for in such a case > > would be one with a majority of men who were about the > > same age as the victim's father. Another observation of > > his was that women jurors were often much harsher on the > > victim than men were, and were much more likely to believe > > claims that the womanwas"asking for it". > > > > If this is true, it is pretty sad. > > -- > > Sophie Quigley > > {allegra|decvax|ihnp4|linus|watmath}!utzoo!mnetor!sophie > > > SOPHIE, > You know that a lot of women are asking for it. I mean look during the > summer, tight shorts, no bras, big brown nipples showing. SHEEEEEIT. > (at least in california) > > Most of the time, the woman is unconsciously asking to be raped. > She takes no precautions, ie. walks alone in the night, and wears > provocative clothing. > > Larry G. Kim *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** Look you f*cking asshole, I think from this statement we can safely say that YOU are looking for an excuse to rape. You are one of the men in this world that makes the rest of the men look bad. No, I repeat, no women wants to be raped. And any man who insists on believing that they secretly want to, should seriously consider getting professional help. You are sick, very sick. I have managed to stay out of the argument until now but sometimes you just come up against something that makes you ill. ---georgia
mom@sftri.UUCP (Mark Modig) (06/16/85)
> > Another observation of > > his was that women jurors were often much harsher on the > > victim than men were, and were much more likely to believe > > claims that the womanwas"asking for it". > > > > If this is true, it is pretty sad. > > -- > > Sophie Quigley > > SOPHIE, > You know that a lot of women are asking for it. I mean look during the > summer, tight shorts, no bras, big brown nipples showing. SHEEEEEIT. > (at least in california) > > Most of the time, the woman is unconsciously asking to be raped. > She takes no precautions, ie. walks alone in the night, and wears > provocative clothing. > > Larry G. Kim Oh, please!! Is this for real? This sort of garbage gets me so worked up I don't know whether to get angry or weep. Look, buddy, nobody has any right to do anything to someone else against their will, and that's the bottom line, precautions or lack thereof notwithstanding. That's what it comes down to. You don't have to prove you took precautions to get a conviction for robbery or theft or other assault. This is no different. If you left your keys in the car, door unlocked and engine running, it would still be theft if someone came and took it without your consent. ggggrrrrrrrr... why am I wasting my time banging on the door when no-one is home? Mark Modig ihnp4!sftri!mom P.S. Postings like this are a primary reason why I have been curtailing my exposure to certain newsgroups. I'm slowly coming to realise that trying to discuss things in a forum like this is ridiculous (Hey, hit me over the head a few hundred times with the obvious-- I might notice.)
jeffw@tekecs.UUCP (Jeff Winslow) (06/17/85)
> Most of the time, the woman is unconsciously asking to be raped. > She takes no precautions, ie. walks alone in the night, and wears > provocative clothing. > > Larry G. Kim I wouldn't bother to reply to this horse**** at all, except that I find it interesting that what is so silly about this is the same as what's so silly about many theories about sexism and language. In each case we are told positively that someone has a certain *unconscious* attitude. To which I ask, if it's unconscious, how the hell do *you* know so much about it?? It's even more ludicrous in this example because a man is pretending to know what a woman unconsciously wants. Perhaps it's really what Mr. Kim wants women to want, eh? Eh? Eh? Jeff Winslow
whitehur@tymix.UUCP (Pamela K. Whitehurst) (06/17/85)
In article <2916@sdcc3.UUCP> ee171ael@sdcc3.UUCP (GEOFFREY KIM) writes: ... > >Most of the time, the woman is unconsciously asking to be raped. >She takes no precautions, ie. walks alone in the night, and wears >provocative clothing. > >Larry G. Kim A few alternative reasons for walking alone in the night and wearing provocative clothing are: 1. youthful feeling of invincibility (Oh Mom, nothings going to happen to me!) 2. consumption of enough mood altering substances to overcome caution. 3. the car broke down on the way home. -PKW-
js2j@mhuxt.UUCP (sonntag) (06/17/85)
> SOPHIE, > You know that a lot of women are asking for it. I mean look during the > summer, tight shorts, no bras, big brown nipples showing. SHEEEEEIT. > (at least in california) > > Most of the time, the woman is unconsciously asking to be raped. > She takes no precautions, ie. walks alone in the night, and wears > provocative clothing. > > Larry G. Kim I first saw this jerkoff's postings in net.flame this morning, where he was flaming two or three relatively innocent new-coke-haters with incredibly witty lines like: "You asshole, I happen to like new coke!" The first time, it seemed boring and pointless; since he was repeating the same kind of lines in other articles, I decided to stop reading articles submitted by Mr. Kim. Unfortunately, I was fooled by the fact that the account he is using seems to be named for a 'Geoffrey Kim', and inadvertently read the above pile of verbal diarreah. Geoffrey: it's 1985. Do you know who's using your account? And for what? Larry G.: May you soon be raped by a gang of beleathered homosexuals who were 'provoked' by your tight shorts, lack of a bra, and showing nipples. After all, you were unconsciously asking for it. -- Jeff Sonntag ihnp4!mhuxt!js2j "It's a hard rain a-gonna fall." - Dylan
anand@utastro.UUCP (Anand Sivaramakrishnan) (06/18/85)
>> SOPHIE, >> You know that a lot of women are asking for it. I mean look during the >> .... >> Most of the time, the woman is unconsciously asking to be raped. >> .... > Look you f*cking asshole, I think from this statement we > can safely say that YOU are looking for an excuse to rape. You > are one of the men in this world that makes the rest of the men > look bad. No, I repeat, no women wants to be raped. And any man > who insists on believing that they secretly want to, should seriously > consider getting professional help. You are sick, very sick. > I have managed to stay out of the argument until now but > sometimes you just come up against something that makes you ill. > > > ---georgia Hear, hear, Ms. Pritchett! At first I thought the original poster was joking, just trying to stir things up by saying things that were contrary to all common sense and decency. I hope you were, Mr. Kim. If you really mean what you said, then it's time the generally silent majority woke up and said something... Incidentally, old chap, I once noticed a creep following a girl (scantily clad, no doubt 'asking for it') down a deserted road here in Texas one day. I was on foot, and I decided to follow him (he was 'asking for it' too... he did not carry a gun, club, bottle or rope, and I could tell by his walk that he did not even have the remotest ability to defend himself from me, I have taught Karate for a couple of years). The pair of them took me several blocks past my intended destination. The creep's object of attention must not have been paying attention to her subconscious, because she turned into a convenience store, he hung about and then left, and I went on my way. So when you get the urge to give a girl something that she knows deep down that she wants, remember you may just be watched by someone who will give you just what you know deep down you want. I hope you get you desire.
zubbie@ihlpl.UUCP (Jeanette Zobjeck) (06/18/85)
> > Most of the time, the woman is unconsciously asking to be raped. > > She takes no precautions, ie. walks alone in the night, and wears > > provocative clothing. > > > > Larry G. Kim Today the body of Melisa Akerman was found in a stream . I am sure that this little girl was responsible for what happened to her because she took no precautions for her own protection. GOD HELP US! If little children can not have the freedom to play and be children while they are young then we might as well consider growing all people in bottles until they are 20 years old or so. Apparently the man who kidnaped/abducted Melisa is still at large. If anyone anywhere knows anything at all which may find this S** O* B**** please PLEASE get in touch with the police. jeanette l. zobjeck ihnp4!ihlpl!zubbie
smuga@mtuxo.UUCP (j.smuga) (06/18/85)
> > Most of the time, the woman is unconsciously asking to be raped. > > She takes no precautions, ie. walks alone in the night, and wears > > provocative clothing. > > > > Larry G. Kim This attitude is what makes virtual prisoners of all women, that a woman who "walks alone in the night" is really *asking* for rape. Maybe she's only going home from work, or visiting a friend. Maybe she's only enjoying the same freedom men take for granted. I'm cautious enough not to walk alone at night (except in my own neighborhood), but I'm intelligent enough to resent the need for caution. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I've had a great many troubles in my time, and most of them never happened. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
jeff@rtech.UUCP (Jeff Lichtman) (06/21/85)
> > > > SOPHIE, > > You know that a lot of women are asking for it. I mean look during the > > summer, tight shorts, no bras, big brown nipples showing. SHEEEEEIT. > > (at least in california) > > > > Most of the time, the woman is unconsciously asking to be raped. > > She takes no precautions, ie. walks alone in the night, and wears > > provocative clothing. > > > > Larry G. Kim Every so often I read something in this newsgroup that makes me want to seal myself in a cave for the rest of my life. This is totally disgusting. It's so bad that I don't think it's even worth arguing against. Mr. Kim, you would be doing the world a service to wear a sign around your neck reading "I'm a jerk". That way, civilised people could avoid you without having to learn about you the hard way. -- Jeff Lichtman at rtech (Relational Technology, Inc.) aka Swazoo Koolak {amdahl, sun}!rtech!jeff {ucbvax, decvax}!mtxinu!rtech!jeff
zubbie@ihlpl.UUCP (Jeanette Zobjeck) (06/25/85)
> > > >> SOPHIE, > >> You know that a lot of women are asking for it. I mean look during the > >> .... > >> Most of the time, the woman is unconsciously asking to be raped. > >> .... > > > > Look you f*cking asshole, I think from this statement we > > can safely say that YOU are looking for an excuse to rape. You > > are one of the men in this world that makes the rest of the men > > look bad. No, I repeat, no women wants to be raped. And any man > > who insists on believing that they secretly want to, should seriously > > consider getting professional help. You are sick, very sick. > > I have managed to stay out of the argument until now but > > sometimes you just come up against something that makes you ill. > > > > > > ---georgia I missed the original posting (I think) so I would like to add about 2 cents worth here. 1) Thanks georgia 2) Considering the makeup of the net - with people like that loose in society can we really (as women) feelsafe from the greater majority of men whose backgrounds ad education are more rigidly clamped in to the sterotyped view of the world which we would like to see changed. Consider that our mothers (you men had mothers too remember) grew up being taught that sex was something a woman was supposed to endure for then pleasure of men. It was this attitude which has been converted into today's underlying feeling present in more men that I want to know about that all women have some deep seated desire to sexually service men because it is "THEIR DUE ". #$%&*(<><??//[{!!!! (no its not rotated I just couldnt bring myself to write the thought which crossed my mind at that point) jeanette l. zobjeck ihnp4!ihlpl!zubbie