bstempleton@watmath.UUCP (Brad Templeton) (07/01/85)
Actually, it should be noted that for many, education IS free. None of the best (by academic standards) have to pay tuition fees. Certainly not at grad school. I have heard that at Stanford, there are more scholarships then there are students in most of the programs. Ie. if you are good enough to make it there, your fees are not a problem. Now I realize there is more to pay than fees, but that's another level of the problem. Mind you, I agree with the suggestion that there always be some fee. An education that doesn't teach you there is no free lunch isn't much of an education. -- Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software, Waterloo, Ont. (519) 884-7473
lonetto@phri.UUCP (Michael Lonetto) (07/09/85)
> Actually, it should be noted that for many, education IS free. None of the > best (by academic standards) have to pay tuition fees. Certainly not at ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > grad school. Of course this is part of the problem. As people have noted before women are often discouraged early on from pursuing technical and business careers (not counting secretarial work). Poor people of all races (but note who these are) often attend substandard public schools. By the time people take SATs the disparity in acheivement of equally intelligent people can be quite large. There is also the problem of many people who are quite intelligent but are bored by mediocre (or worse) public school curriculae, and are chronic under- acheivers until college. Add to this the need for a very educated workforce at this time and I think it becomes difficult to defend the "free education of the best and brightest" as a sufficient public commitment to higher education. -- ____________________ Michael Lonetto Public Health Research Institute, 455 1st Ave, NY, NY 10016 (allegra!phri!lonetto) Do you think it's REAL?
jeand@ihlpg.UUCP (AMBAR) (07/09/85)
> Actually, it should be noted that for many, education IS free. None of the > best (by academic standards) have to pay tuition fees. Certainly not at > grad school. NONE??? Are you living in a dream world? Sure, I am fortunate to have recieved a scholarship from Bell Labs to MIT. How about the hundreds of other (equally able) entering freshman who are mortgaging their souls in order to go there? MIT offered me work/study in order to reduce my parent's cost to *only* 12,000. When my father saw that, he laughed. We all knew that there was no way we could come up with that kind of money, CSS analysis or no. Let's face facts: I know entirely too many people with SAT's in the same range as mine who are attending the nearest state university (or, gag, community college) simply because they CANNOT afford anything else. -- AMBAR {the known universe}!ihnp4!ihlpg!jeand "You shouldn't let people drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance."
bccarty@whuts.UUCP (Brian C. Carty) (07/10/85)
> > Actually, it should be noted that for many, education IS free. None of the > > best (by academic standards) have to pay tuition fees. Certainly not at > > grad school. > > NONE??? Are you living in a dream world? Sure, I am fortunate to have > recieved a scholarship from Bell Labs to MIT. How about the hundreds > of other (equally able) entering freshman who are mortgaging their souls > in order to go there? MIT offered me work/study in order to reduce my > parent's cost to *only* 12,000. When my father saw that, he laughed. > We all knew that there was no way we could come up with that kind of money, > CSS analysis or no. Let's face facts: I know entirely too many people with > SAT's in the same range as mine who are attending the nearest state university > (or, gag, community college) simply because they CANNOT afford anything else. I agree with AMBAR on this one. After four years of self-sacrifice (like driving a car with 170,000 miles on it, delaying needed home repairs, not having a real vacation in ages, not to mention exhausting life's savings)to pay MIT's horrible costs, my parents were in no condition to send me to medical school. If you think the financial aid picture for undergrads is bleak, you should check out the medical school situation. When you consider that in-state tuition at New Jersey state medical schools is $7500/year, it's a wonder anyone from this state ever becomes a doctor. I, too, was fortunate enough to be offered a scholarship (out-of-state school). Maybe now Mom and Dad can get back to their own lives. -- Brian C. Carty AT&T Bell Laboratories Piscataway, NJ
unixcorn@dcc1.UUCP (math.c) (07/11/85)
In article <784@ihlpg.UUCP> jeand@ihlpg.UUCP (AMBAR) writes: >recieved a scholarship from Bell Labs to MIT. How about the hundreds >of other (equally able) entering freshman who are mortgaging their souls >in order to go there? ... >SAT's in the same range as mine who are attending the nearest state university >(or, gag, community college) simply because they CANNOT afford anything else. > As graduate of a community college and as a current instructor at one I must speak out for the community college idea. I won't attempt to take a position that says all community colls are great (no group can make such a claim) but I received a quality education dirt cheap at DeAnza Comm. Col in Cupertino Ca. In 1970 we had an IBM 360 (later 370) to learn on, criminally short turn around time ( < 1 hour ), instructors who were state of the art (silicon valley!) and a responsive administration. At San Jose' State (where I got my BS and MS) we had pretty poor hardware, old-style teachers of Comp Sci and a lot weaker curriculum than at DeAnza. At my current school (DeKalb Com Col) you will find a lot of well qualified, up to date INSTRUCTORS who do the teaching instead of having the grad students do it. (I was a TA, and a good one but I could not do the job as well then as I can now. Experience makes a difference. (Not Ed. courses, who knows what they do)) We were one of the first schools to run UNIX on a VAX for our students. We also teach the same curriculum that Georgia Tech does( at least in Comp Sci and Engineering) Check out the local (often dispised) com cols. You don't always have to go to a big school to get a quality education. -- unixcorn (alias m. gould) "there's a unicorn in the garden and he's eating a lily" gatech!dcc1!unixcorn