nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) (07/19/85)
> From: cat@tommif.UUCP (Catherine Mikkelsen) > AND BEFORE I get told to move this discussion to net.music (aaargh!! > not Kate Bush!!!), back to the original topic: But Kate Bush would make a perfect roll model! (Before any one flames at me to shut up about about Kate Bush, don't worry, this is all I'm going to say on the matter.) She presents an image of honesty, intelligence, independence, artisticness, compassion, and non-conformity. Madonna may present an image of independence, but honesty and compassion? Hah! Madonna presents this discusting sexual image, where she becomes nothing but a sexual object. A boy toy, but one that bites. Sex is to be used to get what one wants. It is also something that is evil and wrong, and that's why it's so much fun, because its fun to be naughty. This type of portrayal of sex is disgusting and does no one any good. It just goes to perpetuate the vile hang-ups about sex that have infected society for so long. Kate Bush too presented a sexual image during her early career, but it was a positive image. Her sexuality was just one aspect of a well-rounded personality. Sex was presented as an important, wholesome, natural, and good part of life. There were no conotations of sex being dirty or wrong, or either partner being a master or slave. This image reinforces how sex should be viewed. As Trouser Press said: The lyrics are striking, even at a casual glance, just because they are about things (rare); many tunes are about sex, but with none of the "consuming bitch" or the "submissive lady" so often in weary evidence. Instead, Kate espouses the view that, blush, sex can be fun, maybe even a good idea: "...it could be love/ Or it could be just lust but it will be fun." Other lyrics about sex include: The more I think about sex, The better it gets, Here we have a purpose in life. Good for the blood circulation, Good for releasing the tension, The root of our reincarnations. And some pleasantly feminist (instead of obnoxiously feminist lyrics): Hey there you lady in tears Do you think that they care if they're real woman? They just take it as part of the deal Lost in your men and the games you play Trying to prove that you're better, woman But you needn't get heavy with them Like it or not, we were built tough Because we're woman Of course, there are a bunch of other female musical artists who present a positive image and who would make fine role models: Suzanne Vega, Tina Weymouth, etc., but not Madonna. Madonna does society no good! -Doug Alan nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (or ARPA)
seb@mtgzz.UUCP (s.e.badian) (07/20/85)
I think Madonna has a great deal going. She knows exactly how to get everyone hot and spend money on her albums and concerts. (I heard that her first tour, the Virgin tour, has totally sold out. This is the first time this has ever happened. Obviously the woman is doing something right.) I've heard Madonna give interviews and she's no gum-chewing, "boy toy" idiot. She has a gimmick and she's playing it to the hilt. I don't think she planned on being a role model. Her image brings up some interesting questions though. She plays on sexuality. She plays on the fact that sex is still taboo. She represents raw sexuality. She picks no bones about it. What does her appeal say about teenagers? Michael Jackson is as popular and is certainly a role model. We hear about how he's nice to his parents, doesn't use drugs or alcohol, doesn't use women. Great. He's also looks anorexic, had his features changed so he looks more "white" and seems to be from all accounts asexual. Interesting mix of characteristics for a role model. At least Madonna is up-front. You know you're dealing with someone who is throwing all-American society out the window. Does that mean that the teenagers are going to grow up to be a cross between Michael and Madonna? And why do they find these pop stars so interesting? Do you think it's their personal or political beliefs? Thinking back to my teenage years(it wasn't that long ago) I try to remember why I liked certain rock stars. It was the music that appealed to me. That was how I heard about the rock stars. But after that it was the image that appealed. Not their political beliefs, not their personal lives, not the way they treated their mothers. And there is no denying that both Jackson and Madonna have strong images, images specially crafted to appeal to today's teenagers raised on MTV. These people are in it to make money, not corrupt our nation's youth. It's amazing how much flak they generate. And besides, I don't really care a heck of a lot if Madonna's pictures got into Playboy and Penthouse. I don't think she's a bad role model for young women. She's independent, she knows what she wants and knows how to get it. She's not the typical sex toy since she knows what she's doing and is controling her life by playing off the weakness men have for her. She's irrevrent, doesn't care one whit if she ticks off the establishment. "Material Girl" does expound a rather mercernary viewpoint, but the video shows just the opposite. "Like a Virgin" is of no philosophical importance, but it is insipid, but I won't fault her for that. I'm really quite sick of the stink over Madonna. I'm quite sick about how people can draw some pretty nasty conclusions about a woman's soul based on a few pictures in some lousy magazine. And what makes me most sick is the why Penthouse and Playboy get to clean up on the whole thing. Sharon Badian ihnp4!mtgzz!seb
cat@tommif.UUCP (Catherine Mikkelsen) (07/24/85)
In article <4728@mit-eddie.UUCP>, nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) writes: > > From: cat@tommif.UUCP (Catherine Mikkelsen) > > > AND BEFORE I get told to move this discussion to net.music (aaargh!! > > not Kate Bush!!!), back to the original topic: > > But Kate Bush would make a perfect roll model! (Before any one flames > at me to shut up about about Kate Bush, don't worry, this is all I'm > going to say on the matter.) > > -Doug Alan > nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (or ARPA) WHAT is all you're going to say on the matter?? The next 50-odd lines of KB blithering??? Look, I'm reeeeally sorry I brought the topic up. Especially in this newsgroup. And especially since I'm about ready to unsubscribe to net.music because of all KB postings. Not to sound rude -- oh okay, TO sound rude -- but why don't you just go recite KB lyrics into the nearest mirror? And now, for some content: My dear, sainted mother is a volunteer fireman (how would Leary say that??? :-), owns several heavy-duty guns, is an avid opera-attender, and does NOT let PMS get in the way of anything (she teaches as well -- computers to juvenile deliquents :-). People who are jumping on the PMS bandwagon as excuses for life really p*** me off. YES, some people have problems. Why even I, little old non- vitriolic me, can get just a smidgen ticked off two days before my period starts (and my breasts are begging to take the day off and stay at home, alone). BUT the publicity surrounding PMS is being used by many male jerks (and even some female ones) to point out that women should just not be in the job market, since they're too *fragile* or whatever. Personally, I don't think that if one has PMS problems one needs to broad- cast them to the world. A simple *I don't feel well* will suffice. And I really wonder about the types of people who constantly put forth the premise that women aren't suited to the workplace -- and bolster that sagging premise with two cardboard examples: PMS and women who leave their jobs to have children. We don't hear Reagan bitching, do we?? With this stunning exhibit of logic and clear thinking, I remain: Catherine Mikkelsen decwrl!greipa!tommif!cat
nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) (07/28/85)
["My door was never locked, until one day a trigger come -- cocking"] > From: cat@tommif.UUCP (Catherine Mikkelsen) > Summary: who let this guy in here?? (I'm sorry) Sure you are! >> [Me:] But Kate Bush would make a perfect role model! (Before any one >> flames at me to shut up about about Kate Bush, don't worry, this is >> all I'm going to say on the matter.) > WHAT is all you're going to say on the matter?? The next 50-odd lines > of KB blithering??? "This" as in "what I am saying now" as in "this message" as opposed to a potential 10,000 following messages. Blithering? I made a comparison between two performers, one who presents a very negative and detrimental sexual image (Madonna) and one who presented a very positive and beneficial sexual image (Kate Bush). It's an important issue and relevant to the conversation. If I use Kate Bush as an example of a female performer who presented a positive sexual image, I do so because I am familiar with her work and because she is one of the very few female musicians who ever did present a positive yet very sexual image. > Look, I'm reeeeally sorry I brought the topic up. Especially in this > newsgroup. And especially since I'm about ready to unsubscribe to > net.music because of all KB postings. Not to sound rude -- oh okay, > TO sound rude -- but why don't you just go recite KB lyrics into the > nearest mirror? Unsubscribe! Go ahead. Make my day! > And now, for some content: My dear, sainted mother is a volunteer > fireman (how would Leary say that??? :-), owns several heavy-duty > guns, is an avid opera-attender, and does NOT let PMS get in the way > of anything (she teaches as well -- computers to juvenile deliquents > :-)......................[etc., etc.] I was blithering? You just posted a message to net.music about pre-menstrual syndrom! What do you call that? "I'll meet you on the dark side of the moon" Doug Alan nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (or ARPA) P.S. I guess not all people named Catherine are reasonable.