oaf@mit-vax.UUCP (Oded Feingold) (07/21/85)
The story so far: Eric McColm mentioned that women's defensive tactics, if known, would likely be foiled, since there's no reason to assume a rapist is unintelligent. Hence any such tactics suggested by men were suspect, and women should decide what response they were comfortable with and keep their plans private. I suggested that people's normal association into peer groups should provide a source of mutual and support, for example a set of known (and accountable) escorts for women walking home at night, after a party, whatever. There have been several negative responses, both in mail and postings, indicating that since rapists and victims often know each other, such a proposal has little merit. Someone claimed that a person who assaulted a woman in the context of walking her home would only be in "deep shit" with his peer group if she was in the group too. [That's a misdirected jab, since were she NOT in the nominal peer group, having friends in common, even if she had a prior association with the man, then the conditions I set forth weren't being followed.] A common theme in these criticisms is that people are involved with peer groups that encourage rape and macho attitudes. > Actually, if anything untoward happens, the woman > must have "asked for it." After all, she let him > walk her home, and that probably meant that she > asked him in, and we all *know* what that means. > > Don't we? > > Especially if the woman was inebriated. Then she is > *really* asking for it. > Ariel Shattan The number and vehemence of such replies gives them a certain cogency. I don't doubt those feelings are sincere. But that cogency depends on the "peer group" being the way it's purported; macho, exploitive (redundant?), unsympathetic... It strikes me that anyone who recognizes such characteristics among their "friends" has the wrong friends. I'll revise my suggestion: Find a peer group that DOESN'T manifest such attitudes. Go to parties among real friends, not men who'll rape you once liquor overcomes their inhibitions. [Consider the joys of not getting plastered at parties, nor going to parties where getting shitfaced is the business of the evening.] If you can't find a set of friends, colleagues, whatever, whom you'll trust not to assault you there's something very wrong. Once you've done that, try my original suggestion. If you're involved with a sexist crowd, you have a difficult readjustment coming, not least of which is rebuilding your self-image (consciousness-raising). Feel free to shoot it down. -- Oded Feingold {decvax, harvard}!mitvax!oaf MIT AI Lab oaf%oz@mit-mc.ARPA 545 Tech Sq. 617-253-8598 work Cambridge, Mass. 02139 617-371-1796 home
norman@lasspvax.UUCP (Norman Ramsey) (08/03/85)
>But that cogency depends on the "peer group" being the way it's >purported; macho, exploitive (redundant?), unsympathetic... It >strikes me that anyone who recognizes such characteristics among their >"friends" has the wrong friends. > >I'll revise my suggestion: Find a peer group that DOESN'T manifest >such attitudes. Go to parties among real friends, not men who'll rape >you once liquor overcomes their inhibitions. [Consider the joys of >not getting plastered at parties, nor going to parties where getting >shitfaced is the business of the evening.] If you can't find a set of >friends, colleagues, whatever, whom you'll trust not to assault you >there's something very wrong. > >Once you've done that, try my original suggestion. If you're involved >with a sexist crowd, you have a difficult readjustment coming, not >least of which is rebuilding your self-image (consciousness-raising). > Sounds great! Where have these people been hiding? (I'm serious, by the way -- aside from *some* of my colleagues (I'm a grad student in phsyics), I haven't met any people like this since leaving college. Norman