chabot@miles.DEC (All God's chillun got guns) (08/21/85)
Jeff Winslow >> End of chapter 1 of "Against our will": >> "Man's dicovery that his genitalia could serve as a weapon to generate fear >> must rank as one of the most important discoveries of prehistoric times, >> along with the use of fire and the first crude stone axe. From prehistoric >> times to the present, I believe, rape has played a critical function. It is >> nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which *all >> men* keep *all women* in a state of fear." > > ... First, I have *never* thought > of my genitalia as a weapon to generate fear (although I know all about fires > and axes), and second, the conscious process Brownmiller describes is > impossible (I offer myself as counterexample, since she said "all men"). Okay, it's fair to say that all men don't think that of their genitalia as a weapon to generate fear. On the other hand, I've met some men who have had that attitude, at least episodically, and more men who think of their genitalia as an item to generate some sort of a reaction (for instance, flashers are out to get *some* sort of a reaction). And it's also fair to say that all men don't want to keep women in a state of fear. But there is a general state of mild fear among most women--fear of being alone outside after dark without an escort, apprension about being a spinster, apprehension about appearing non-feminine in looks or profession or demeanor--and these apprehensions aid in the continuing perceived dependency of many women upon men. Even independent women will list phone numbers under pseudonyms (or at least not list the first name)--not in terror, but to prevent unwanted calls from unknown jerks. [And write books under pseudonyms (or at least not use the first name), so that the book will look like it's been written by a man and therefore be treated seriously.] Now, I know men (and Jeff's probably one, too) who find these things aggravating--women who want to be escorted to the subway, women who seem uncomfortable in the company of a man, and so on--and so these men find a distinct disadvantage in the behavior that results from these apprehensions. But for those high on competition: what could be better than eliminating (or frightening off) >50% of the human race--less competition that way! (This is un-sports-person-like :-) behavior, but not everyone considers being a good sport or being well-behaved or whatever your favorite is to be necessary.) L S Chabot ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot chabot%amber.dec@decwrl.arpa
greenber@timeinc.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) (08/22/85)
In article <65@decwrl.UUCP> chabot@miles.DEC (All God's chillun got guns) writes: > >Okay, it's fair to say that all men don't think that of their genitalia as >a weapon to generate fear. On the other hand, I've met some men who have had >that attitude, at least episodically, and more men who think of their genitalia >as an item to generate some sort of a reaction (for instance, flashers are out >to get *some* sort of a reaction). > Still not fair, I'm sad to say. Consider prostitutes: based on their genitalia, they too are criminals. So would it be fair to use them to analyze the rest of the women? Of course not! -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Ross M. Greenberg @ Time Inc, New York --------->{vax135 | ihnp4}!timeinc!greenber<--------- I highly doubt that Time Inc. would make me their spokesperson. --- "You must never run from something immortal. It attracts their attention." -- The Last Unicorn
chabot@miles.DEC (All God's chillun got guns) (09/03/85)
Piotr Berman > It appears that men are in even worse position toward rape than women. > Since men are not supposed to be weak, the humiliation is correspondingly > bigger. Also, it is much less expected. My though was that the victims > from DC jails were in the position of women some years ago, when being > a victim of rape was shameful. I do not think that the humiliation is bigger--however its sources may be different. Perhaps the stereotype of women being weak is widely held, but to an individual woman who hasn't been raised to think of herself as weak such an assault can be just as unexpected; moreover an assault from an source such as a friend or someone closer is nearly always unexpected. Humiliation for a woman has been more recently tied more to morals--a woman who was raped has her morals questioned (has she been involved in >gasp< non-marital sex, for instance), because sex for women was often tied to shame (I realize things have changed recently!); the corresponding shame for men is that of sex with another man -- homosexuality. [Not that I condemn homosexuality!] These aren't my views of the situation--immoral woman or homosexual man--but I have heard them in the mouths of others, and they do both relate to a perceived (not mine!) moral problem of the victim. Being a victim of rape is still shameful, from what I've seen: it makes many people uncomfortable and so they'll stop talking to a friend who's a victim. (Not everybody, but some.) L S Chabot ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot