jcp@osiris.UUCP (Jody Patilla) (09/07/85)
I've been reading a collection of essays by historian Carroll Smith-Rosenberg called "Disorderly Conduct", about women's history in Victorian America. One essay in particular deals with the intimacy among women that was prevalent 150 years ago. It was not uncommon for women to become close friends as girls and remain very close for the rest of their lives, even after marriage and long-term physical separation. Women also maintained close relationships with women of older or younger generations, including their mothers. She quotes from letters in which older and younger women and mothers and daughters enjoy a closeness and emotional intimacy that is not often seen now between generations of women, and especially between mothers and daughters. This leads me to suggest a new topic for discussion - what are the mother-daughter (and mother-son) relationships like for the folks in the news group ? My relations with my own mother are wonderful. I wish she lived next door. In fact, I hope some day to have lots of money and a big house so she can come to live with us (my husband agrees whole-heartedly, honest- he thinks she's wonderful too). But then, my mom is nuts. She met my dad when BOTH of them were in the Marines. 30 years ago, she dated Stan Kenton's band manager. She picks snakes up out of the garden with her bare hands and lectures them for preying on her pet toads. (I am NOT making this up) Anything I've ever wanted to do has been fine with her - she's very supportive and non-judgemental. (mostly since *I* have to keep *her* out of trouble!) She hugs on anything that holds still for 2 seconds, and we often hold hands in public. I could go on and on but you get the idea. People who think I'm rather odd meet my mom and then it all becomes clear. My mother-in-law, on the other hand, closely resembles a prickly pear cactus. She truly means well, and she likes me and treats me as best she can but she is not an affectionate person at all. She doesn't like babies or animals (strange, since she had 6 kids). She complains all the time, is extremely dour and does not put forth with the approval and praise. None of her children feels close to her at all, and they all have hang-ups about their family and their self-images. The contrast here shows how important these relationships can be. How would you categorise your relationship with your mother ? How has she affected your self-image ? Your relations with other women and with men (vice-versa if you're a guy) ? If you are a mother now or plan to be, do you want to be like or different from your own mother ? How has your mother affected your view of yourself as a woman ? Do you agree or disagree with your mother on women's issues ? I'd like to see what people think about this, since it is something that affects women, and men's relationships with women and everyone ought to have something to say about it (if you don't then maybe it's time for some introspection!). -- jcpatilla "At night, the ice weasels come."
barryg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Lee Gold) (09/12/85)
My relations with my mother are fairly close. We talk two or three times a week on the phone and see each other every week or so. We also sometimes trade books to read (I turned her on to reading science fiction). However, I don't think I modeled myself on her particularly. She's a sweet, intelligent lady but I grew up noticing that whenever she and father disagreed, we did things his way. And I prefer winning to being sweet. My father and I don't get on at all well. For years I just assumed he hated me. In my early 20s I found out I looked just like his mother who died when he was in his teens. He never implied he disliked me because I was a woman; it was because I was as opinionated and outspoken as he was. Neither of them ever behaved dishonorably to me. I grew up expecting that everyone would be truthful and keep their promises and was surprised to run into adults for whom this wasn't true. Both my parents stressed that as a woman I was free to take either the traditional male or traditional female role--or hack out my own. I ended up working part time, wearing dresses rather than slacks, and having a husband who does the cooking--a compromise path, I suppose. My husband's family doesn't understand me particularly. But then they don't understand him either. They brought up their own daughter to be cutely dependent--and they're still helping support her now that she's 36. They do tell me I'm their second daughter. *sigh* --Lee Gold
linda@amdcad.UUCP (Linda Seltzer) (09/12/85)
In article <520@osiris.UUCP>, jcp@osiris.UUCP (Jody Patilla) writes: > Women also > maintained close relationships with women of older or younger generations, > including their mothers. She quotes from letters in which older and younger > women and mothers and daughters enjoy a closeness and emotional intimacy > that is not often seen now between generations of women, and especially between > mothers and daughters. This leads me to suggest a new topic for discussion - > what are the mother-daughter (and mother-son) relationships like for the folks in the news group ? I have two close friendships with women of the older generation. These are very warm, lasting friendships. One of them composes computer music (as I do) and we have put on several concerts together. As for the relationship with my mother - I have exactly the relationship I want with her - I haven't spoken to her in 15 years, and was completely on my own by the time I was 17.
pking@uiucuxc.Uiuc.ARPA (09/20/85)
I thought alot about this question -- my mother and I were very close, best friends almost, and in looks we're a lot alike, and there are a lot of people who say we're alot a like in many other ways but I don't see that. She was a nurse for over forty years (I was born when she was 37), I go weak at the site of blood and never had any desire to enter the medical profession. She had the most incredible patience, and endurance of anyone I ever knew. Very few things rattled her and I wish now I could have that trait. She taught me it was okay to have a career and a family, but family and childern were always first in her life and they are in mine as well. My mother and father worked all of my childhood but I knew as did my sister, mom or dad were only a phone call away. She was more tolerant than I am, she put up with my father moving around the country as he changed jobs about every five or six years or so. Mother died June 14, 1984. She had just retired in January, and endured cancer surgery and treatments. Blessedly her death was quick and relatively painless. I miss her still, and there are times when I think about all of the things I could have said and didn't when she was alive. Her closest friend once told me that mother knew how I felt, but I still wish I'd said it to her, and I hope in whatever after life she's in that she knows. I learned alot from her, about strength, patience, love as well as how to be myself, because that's what she always seemed to be. She wasn't a great cook, or a great seamstress, or anything like that, so in consequence neither am I, but I don't think I'm any the poorer for it. Perhaps I didn't really appreciate her until it was too late, and maybe a lot of people out there feel that same way when they lose a parent, believe me there's no pain like it on earth, except perhaps for the loss of a child (they are a tie for 1 and 2 in the pain department). Well I guess that's all, except I'm glad she and I were friends, and mother and daughter, I wouldn't have traded the relationship for all the money in the world. pat king university of illinois adminstrative information systems and services 54 adminstration building 506 s. wright urbana, il 61801 uiucdcs!uiucuxc!pking