mokhtar@ubc-vision.UUCP (09/26/85)
Subject: Re: When are you a man/woman?
> Does anyone object to being called a lady?
I object to using it indiscriminately. Not every woman deserves it. In other
words, it is something that is earned. You can't ask others to call you that.
Farzin Mokhtarian
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Their guide was Gollum, deceitful and lust-filled, slave to the corruption of
the Ring."
lws@hou2d.UUCP (lwsamocha) (09/26/85)
Are you a man or a mouse? Come on now, squeak up!
stan@hou2f.UUCP (S.GLAZER) (09/26/85)
>I object to using it [lady] indiscriminately. Not every women deserves it. >In other words, it is something that is earned. Are you refering to "lady" or do you mean "Lady" as in a title? I believe that all women are ladies unless they do not wish to be known as one. [She might not want it to spoil her reputation :-) ]
ellen@reed.UUCP (Ellen Eades) (09/27/85)
> Subject: Re: When are you a man/woman? > > Does anyone object to being called a lady? > I object to using it indiscriminately. Not every woman deserves it. In other > words, it is something that is earned. You can't ask others to call you that. > Farzin Mokhtarian I object to being called a lady, especially in the implications of the above. Is Farzin saying that s/he is going to judge whether or not I am 'deserving' of this term (I assume that what is meant here by 'lady' is something like, a woman who exhibits traits of decorum & modesty which are considered assets by the patriarchal society we live in)? What gives Farzin the right to judge, and who says I would want to 'deserve' such an appelation anyway?! Thanks, but no thanks; 'lady' is an emotionally-laden term which is to 'woman' somewhat like 'Oriental' is to 'Asian'; and as a member of the two latter groups, I hope to avoid the former terms. Yes, I know, you wouldn't have called me a lady anyway... Ellen -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Who's been repeating all that hard stuff to you?" "I read it in a book," said Alice. - - - - - - - - - - - - - tektronix!reed!ellen
mokhtar@ubc-vision.UUCP (Farzin Mokhtarian) (09/28/85)
Subject: Re: When are you a man/woman/lady ? >> I object to using it [lady] indiscriminately. Not every women deserves it. >> In other words, it is something that is earned. > Are you refering to "lady" or do you mean "Lady" as in a title? > I believe that all women are ladies unless they do not wish to be known > as one. [She might not want it to spoil her reputation :-) ] I am refering to "lady". Perhaps it's just a matter of definition but it's my understanding that the word "lady" carries more respect than the word "woman" and respect can only be earned (through character not status). So I wouldn't use the word "lady" for every woman. That would be a misuse (unless one is just trying to be very polite). This obviously doesn't imply that the word "woman" is disrespectful but everything has a place. Farzin Mokhtarian -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "This is my song - pleasant and sweet It has never been more than this"
ariels@orca.UUCP (Ariel Shattan) (09/28/85)
> > >I object to using it [lady] indiscriminately. Not every women deserves it. > >In other words, it is something that is earned. > > Are you refering to "lady" or do you mean "Lady" as in a title? > I believe that all women are ladies unless they do not wish to be known > as one. [She might not want it to spoil her reputation :-) ] The only thing wrong with being a lady is being expected to act like one. Ariel (once, twice, sometimes a lady) Shattan ..!tektronix!orca!ariels
suki@reed.UUCP (Monica Nosek) (10/01/85)
>> I believe that all women are ladies unless they do not wish to be known >> as one. [She might not want it to spoil her reputation :-) ] > >The only thing wrong with being a lady is being expected to act like >one. > >Ariel (once, twice, sometimes a lady) Shattan >..!tektronix!orca!ariels One of my favorites lines (said with one eyebrow raised and a wicked smile): "I never claimed to be a lady..."
mokhtar@ubc-vision.UUCP (10/01/85)
> Subject: Re: When are you a man/woman? > I object to being called a lady, especially in the implications > of the above. Is Farzin saying that s/he is going to judge > whether or not I am 'deserving' of this term (I assume that what > is meant here by 'lady' is something like, a woman who exhibits > traits of decorum & modesty which are considered assets by > the patriarchal society we live in)? What gives Farzin the right > to judge, and who says I would want to 'deserve' such an > appelation anyway?! Thanks, but no thanks; ... > Yes, I know, you wouldn't have called me a lady anyway... > Ellen Well, you could be a lady even if you don't "exhibit traits of decorum & modesty considered assets by the patriarchal society we live in". At least that's what I think but that may be too unorthodox. I simply looked at it as a woman who has earned extra respect, but respect is achieved in many different ways depending on whose respect you want to have. So there is no universal definition of lady. One other point: I see "ladylike" as a state a waman has reached not as a pattern of behaviour to follow in order to qualify. This means that if one is a lady, one doesn't act like a lady but one just *is* a lady. Farzin Mokhtarian ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The essential thing is being a person. Being a man or woman is not the issue."
jpexg@mit-hermes.ARPA (John Purbrick) (10/02/85)
The word "lady" is used in modern speech by those who are afraid of the word "woman".
hxe@rayssd.UUCP (Heather Emanuel) (10/03/85)
> >I object to using it [lady] indiscriminately. Not every women deserves it. > >In other words, it is something that is earned. Do I have to pay hard cash, or can I just do some sort of "community service hours" work to earn it? Maybe if I volunteer to judge the local garden show... No! I've got it! I'll join the "Ladies Auxilliary" to the fire department! Then you'll *have* to call me a lady cause I'll have a card that says so. So *there*! -- --Heather Emanuel {allegra, decvax!brunix, linus, raybed2} rayssd!hxe -------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't think my company *has* an opinion, so the ones in this article are obviously my own. -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Ain't life a brook... Sometimes I feel just like a polished stone" -Ferron
dyer@vaxuum.DEC (People 'R' People) (10/07/85)
Re: When are you a man/woman/lady ?_______________________________ > The word "lady" is used in modern speech by those who are afraid > of the word "woman." Truer words have seldom been spoken! The absence of a proper corollary to "guy" is irrelevant. If forced to choose between "man" and "boy" to describe a male person of, let's say, 19 years of age, few people would "insult" (for that is indeed how it would be taken) him by selecting "boy." Why, then, is there such reluctance to grant a female person of the same age the same courtesy and call her a "woman?" <_Jym_> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::' :: `:::: Jym Dyer ::::' :: `:::: ::' :: `:: Dracut, Massachusetts ::' :: `:: :: :: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: :: :: .::::. :: DYER%VAXUUM.DEC@DECWRL.ARPA :: .::::. :: ::..:' :: `:..:: {allegra|decvax|ihnp4|ucbvax} ::..:' :: `:..:: ::::. :: .:::: decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-vaxuum!dyer ::::' :: `:::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
grass@uiucdcsb.CS.UIUC.EDU (10/07/85)
<>
It seems to me that most of the time I hear someone called "lady", it has very
little to do with her good manners. Mostly it's in the context:
"Lady, you can't park there"
"This bus don't go there, lady"
(Read these with a bit of a whine, or lots of exasperation).
"Lady" is even used pejoratively as in "lady doctor", "lady lawyer", etc.
It's these common uses that make me wince when I get called "lady".
- Judy Grass, University of Illinois - Urbana
{ihnp4,pur-ee,convex}!uiucdcs!grass grass%uiuc.arpareddy@uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU (10/07/85)
I believe that "woman" was used derogatorily in Britain at one time. Hence the proliferation of "lady". Well, may be not. The causality could have been the other way round.
crs@lanl.ARPA (10/08/85)
> > Re: When are you a man/woman/lady ?_______________________________ > > > The word "lady" is used in modern speech by those who are afraid > > of the word "woman." > > Truer words have seldom been spoken! > The absence of a proper corollary to "guy" is irrelevant. > If forced to choose between "man" and "boy" to describe a male > person of, let's say, 19 years of age, few people would "insult" > (for that is indeed how it would be taken) him by selecting "boy." > Why, then, is there such reluctance to grant a female person of > the same age the same courtesy and call her a "woman?" Am I the only one who thinks there are two groups here carrying on two *different* conversations together? On the one hand we have the group who (rightfully) contend that to say "C'mon guys and women, lets go have a beer" is absurd in the extreme. On the other, is the group who (equally rightfully) insist that it is rude, to say nothing of incorrect, to call a woman a girl, especially if she is offended by it. I suppose there are also (at least) two other factions who refuse to admit that either of the two groups mentioned above or the other of these two exists, much less has a valid point. Aren't we beating a dead horse? -- All opinions are mine alone... Charlie Sorsby ...!{cmcl2,ihnp4,...}!lanl!crs crs@lanl.arpa
lsr@apple.UUCP (Larry Rosenstein) (10/09/85)
In article <1107@rayssd.UUCP> hxe@rayssd.UUCP (Heather Emanuel) writes: [referring to the title of 'lady'] > >Do I have to pay hard cash, or can I just do some sort of >"community service hours" work to earn it? Maybe if I volunteer >to judge the local garden show... No! I've got it! I'll join >the "Ladies Auxilliary" to the fire department! Then you'll >*have* to call me a lady cause I'll have a card that says so. >So *there*! > No. All you have to do is attend one of the consciousness lowering sessions sponsored by Ladies Against Women. After this session (or maybe 2 sessions in some cases) you recieve an official pink L.A.W. membership card. (Of course it must be signed by a husband, father, or clergyman to be valid.) For more information contact: Ladies Against Women 1600 Woolsey #7 Berkeley, CA 94703 (415) 841-6500 And remember: "Tupperware preserves the family." 8-) -- Larry Rosenstein Apple Computer UUCP: {voder, nsc, ios, mtxinu, dual}!apple!lsr CSNET: lsr@Apple.CSNET
terry@nrcvax.UUCP (Terry Grevstad) (10/10/85)
suki@reed.UUCP (Monica Nosek) says: >>> I believe that all women are ladies unless they do not wish to be known >>> as one. [She might not want it to spoil her reputation :-) ] >> >>The only thing wrong with being a lady is being expected to act like >>one. >> >>Ariel (once, twice, sometimes a lady) Shattan >>..!tektronix!orca!ariels > >One of my favorites lines (said with one eyebrow raised and a >wicked smile): > "I never claimed to be a lady..." Actually, there is a time and a place for everything. In the boudoir with one's lover, I feel one should always be a "woman," all "woman". However, you will get a lot more respect standing before a judge deciding a traffic ticket if you behave like a "lady." In short--there are times when I feel like a lady and act accordingly, at other times, I feel like a woman--and act accordingly. And who can say they don't feel girlish sometimes? I certainly can't. -- \"\t\f1A\h'+1m'\f4\(mo\h'+1m'\f1the\h'+1m'\f4\(es\t\f1\c _______________________________________________________________________ Terry Grevstad Network Research Corporation ihnp4!nrcvax!terry {sdcsvax,hplabs}!sdcrdcf!psivax!nrcvax!terry ucbvax!calma!nrcvax!terry
rdz@ccice5.UUCP (Robert D. Zarcone) (10/10/85)
> > Re: When are you a man/woman/lady ?_______________________________ > > > The word "lady" is used in modern speech by those who are afraid > > of the word "woman." > > Truer words have seldom been spoken! > The absence of a proper corollary to "guy" is irrelevant. > If forced to choose between "man" and "boy" to describe a male > person of, let's say, 19 years of age, few people would "insult" > (for that is indeed how it would be taken) him by selecting "boy." > Why, then, is there such reluctance to grant a female person of > the same age the same courtesy and call her a "woman?" > <_Jym_> Having had quite a "Southern" influence on my life, I am afraid I have to disagree. I have heard many instances of men and women in their 30s and 40s being called "boy" or "girl" (in both white and black environments). Granted, this is not the case in the Northeast, generally speaking. But there is at least one region of this country where your example would be "common speach" and not an "insult" at all. *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
bing@galbp.UUCP (Bing Bang) (10/18/85)
some friend once told me the difference between a woman and a lady was a couple of strong drinks. ooops wrong newsgroup!!! remember now, LADIES do not throw flames... -- ---------- "Break but never bend" ...akgua!galbp!bing