jackson@ttidcb.UUCP (Dick Jackson) (10/10/85)
This is my first, and unless I get flamed enough, probably my last to net.women. I read this group because I still have the hope that one day I will understand women - maybe, I thought, by eavsdropping on their thoughts about themselves, I would get some clues. (To some of us men, women are mysterious, almost alien creatures. "Who knows what women think about" wrote Jack Smith of the LA Times. "We do know, however, what men think about - food, sex and football".) Therefore I get slightly annoyed that so many postings to this group are from chaps. The recent question about feeling feminine/masculine however resulted in a preponderance of female answers,interesting in that they were generally stereotypical. I wonder if this is because many men feel as I do, neither masculine nor feminine but just "normal". If so this would reinforce the view that the mainstream world is a male one, which womanish things are "outside". Am I blundering into what to others is a glaringly obvious idea? Maybe, just as some people live a long time not realizing that they are heterosexual writers of prose, I need to have it beaten into me that my world is not "normal", but male?
crs@lanl.ARPA (10/11/85)
> I wonder if this is because many men feel as I do, neither masculine nor > feminine but just "normal". If so this would reinforce the view that the > mainstream world is a male one, which womanish things are "outside". > Am I blundering into what to others is a glaringly obvious idea? Maybe, > just as some people live a long time not realizing that they are > heterosexual writers of prose, I need to have it beaten into me that my > world is not "normal", but male? Bingo! I think you have put your finger on the confusion I felt when I, a man, tried to think what my answer was to "when do I feel most masculine/feminine" in response to the earlier question. You're right. I don't feel either; I feel normal. That is not to say that I don't have feelings that are sometimes considered masculine or are sometimes considered feminine. But they don't make me *feel* masculine/feminine; They just feel normal to me. Well, most of them do -- sometimes the cultural bias rears its ugly head and I feel uncomfortable about one or another. I guess I have to disagree with what you say about your world not being normal, but male. Wouldn't we all be better off if we felt *normal* with what we are, rather than feeling male or feeling female? Am I missing some subtlety? Thanks for your article. I enjoyed reading it and thinking about it. -- All opinions are mine alone... Charlie Sorsby ...!{cmcl2,ihnp4,...}!lanl!crs crs@lanl.arpa
whitehur@tymix.UUCP (Pamela K. Whitehurst) (10/14/85)
In article <472@ttidcb.UUCP> jackson@ttidcb.UUCP (Dick Jackson) writes: >This is my first, and unless I get flamed enough, probably my last to >net.women. I read this group because I still have the hope that one day >I will understand women ... What type of understanding do you want? It is probably possible to come up with enough statistics to claim that in a given situation 53% of all women of a certain educational level, race, and income bracket will react in 'this' way. That will get you through most situations where you do not care about individuals. If you want to understand women as individuals then, as with men, you get rid of as many generalizations as possible, and then you listen. Just be careful not to assume that what is true for one woman is true for another. >I wonder if this is because many men feel as I do, neither masculine nor >feminine but just "normal". If so this would reinforce the view that the >mainstream world is a male one, which womanish things are "outside". >Am I blundering into what to others is a glaringly obvious idea? Maybe, >just as some people live a long time not realizing that they are >heterosexual writers of prose, I need to have it beaten into me that my >world is not "normal", but male? Perhaps it is time to ask, what is it you are really feeling when you feel feminine/masculine? I associate feeling feminine with feeling gentle, usually quiet, and very aware of myself. I feel masculine when I am feeling physically protective of someone, not nurturing. Most of the time I just feel "normal". Is my normal feeling the same as your normal feeling? -- PKW hplabs!oliveb!tymix!whitehur +---------------------------------------+ | The thrill is not just in the winning | | But in the courage to join the race | +---------------------------------------+
phil@amdcad.UUCP (Phil Ngai) (10/20/85)
In article <472@ttidcb.UUCP> jackson@ttidcb.UUCP (Dick Jackson) writes: >I read this group because I still have the hope that one day >I will understand women - maybe, I thought, by eavsdropping on their >thoughts about themselves, I would get some clues. > >(To some of us men, women are mysterious, almost alien creatures. "Who >knows what women think about" wrote Jack Smith of the LA Times. "We do >know, however, what men think about - food, sex and football".) Well, I have enough trouble finding things that my two sisters have in common. They were raised in the same environment, yet they are very different. I've known them all their lives and we have a good relationship; I think I know them pretty well. Now you want to understand WOMEN, in general? Good luck! But if there are particular women you want to get to know, then try talking, and listening, to them. And do the best you can to see things from her point of view. You may not know that her father always responded to her questions about cars with "why would a pretty thing like you need to know that?", but anything you do to understand where someone is coming from is better than assuming everyone has the same background you do. -- The California Lottery is a tax on the stupid. Phil Ngai +1 408 749-5720 UUCP: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra}!amdcad!phil ARPA: amdcad!phil@decwrl.dec.com