susan@madvax.UUCP (Susan Finkelman) (10/19/85)
Walter, I've been holding and re-reading your response to Tom for several days, because something in it just didn't sit right. (the response is attached at the end). I realize that I am about to bring up a very messy issue that may not be appropriate for net.women, but here goes: I was beaten up by a guy I went out with my last year of high school. The bruises are gone, and, as far as prevention goes, it hasn't happend again - and it WON'T. But I've prevented it by being extremely careful of men, by not trusting anyone including my own judgement - it was pretty faulty before, remember. And it has caused me to be prepared to be more violent than I really think is right, but if anyone ever lays hand on me or my daughter, I have no intention of allowing it, or "fighting fair". I don't know what that guy is doing now, but I would prefer to know that he's in jail. Even my disinclination to support scum at state expense doesn't prevent me from hoping he's locked up and not hurting anyone else. But then I have never heard of a guy being locked up for such behavior, and certainly not punished (and no, prison is not for reform, it's for punishment or at least to keep them off the streets). I wouldn't mind a little revenge myself. I would prefer to have back a life without terror, a life where I could depend at least on the people I know behaving in a semi-decent manner, but I don't get that option. > I'm for attitude adjustment (right on top of the head with a > sawed of piece of piss-elm pick handle) for wife and child beaters. > That also goes for damned belligerant barroom brawlers. > > > This has been a public service anouncement from the Maplewood Mind > Moulders Association. Tom Frye President > > What about husband beaters, Tom. People, don't forget that Spouse Abuse goes > both ways. More over it is a symptom of peoples lack of respect for others. > Your tails and solutions are not much better than the problem, Tom. > Unfortunately lifes not fair yet. Let's work at promoting peace and solving > problems rather than getting revenge and creating more problems. Don't get the > wrong idear here. I'm not saying let anyone beat on you. If you are attacked > then it is necessary to defend you and yours but getting revenge is not going > to help as milleniums of histories of feuds show. After the attack you need to > concentrate on prevention, not revenge. > > --- --- > <o > <o > > /_ > -==- > iiii -Walter. > "Can anyone really hear me?"
waltervj@dartvax.UUCP (walter jeffries) (10/23/85)
Susan,
I am deeply saddened that you, me, or anyone has ever suffered at the
hands of another. I grieve even more that any of us harbor feelings of a need
for revenge. I look at history and personal experience and see the horrors that
revenge brings, the vicious circles of feuds, the destruction as we repeatedly
avenged the wrongs agaist us.
You spoke of being beat up in high school and your feelings for revenge.
You question the rightness of my response to Tom where I suggest staying away
from revenge. Maybe that's not the whole solution, but I was not speaking from
high ideals and a lack of experience. Like you, I too have experienced, first
hand, beatings and abuse. And like you, I too have wanted revenge from time
to time. But it is not something I would act on as it would just perpetuate the
cycle I seek to break free from.
In my response to Tom (see end of this article) I asked him about husband
abuse. Spouse abuse goes both ways. I know, in my family my mother is the
violent spouse and my father, althought bigger, just takes it. Why? Because
he feels as I do about violence. It is something to be avoided if at all
possible. (Things have changed now in my family, my mother has learned to deal
with her feelings in less violent ways. But would she have if they'd both
fought? or would the cycle of violence have been perpetuated to my generation?)
Like you, Susan, I've never heard of a man being put in prison for 'just'
beating up his wife/girlfriend/etc, but neither have I heard of a women being
locked up for such behavior. A sad truth is that our society has been very
accepting of personal abuse of it's members by it's members. *No harm done,
after all, it's all in the family! ;-( * Let's try to change this attitude.
Your note about the guy you went out with beating you up struck a deep
note in my soul. I too have suffered at the hands of one I deeply loved. All
too many of us have... Last year my ex-SO (yes, ex-, even a thick headed,
stubborn, idealistic nut like myself will learn if you hit my over the head long
enought) almost killed me in anger. The scar runs deep in my soul and I feel
sick just thinking about it now, a year later.
I still cry, even now when I remember it. But I'm alive! And
even that is no excuse in my mind for revenge. I want the world to be a safer
place, free from terror for you, me, us all. Revenge doesn't help get us there.
(I must be sounding pretty preachy by now. I'll stop soon...) I didn't even
part from my SO (in my heart there is still no ex- ;-() then (so I'm really
slow... :-) ) but kept on trying, maybe too hard, too long... I wrote a poem
for her later, after another 'incident' and you'll find it appended below for
what it's worth...
Life's tough, brutal, and cruel at times, Susan, but let's try together to
make it a little better for us all, a little safer, a little more free of terror
I'm not advocating letting all the world trample you but I don't see revenge as
being a way of achieving both mine and your goal of "...a life without terror,
a life where [you] could depend at least on the people [you] know behaving in a
semi-decent manner..."
< o > < o > Love & Peace,
/ -Walter.
/_
'-==-' "Wow, someone was listening..."
iiii
_I Believe You When You Tell Me So._
I love You
And I believe You
When You tell me so,
You say You're sorry
You say You never meant to hurt me so
And I believe You
When You tell me so,
You say You love me
You tell me it hurts You when You beat me
And I believe You
When You tell me so,
You cry with my pain
You claim I am Your other half
And I believe You
When You tell me so,
You come to me in my night
You tell me that it will be okay
And I believe You
When You tell me so,
You cleanse my wounds
You say you'll never hit me again
And I believe You
When You tell me so,
After all, I always do.
-wvj
(Text that follows is from Susan's article)
>
> Walter,
>
> I've been holding and re-reading your response to Tom for several days,
> because something in it just didn't sit right. (the response is attached
> at the end). I realize that I am about to bring up a very messy
> issue that may not be appropriate for net.women, but here goes:
>
> I was beaten up by a guy I went out with my last year of high school.
> The bruises are gone, and, as far as prevention goes, it hasn't happend
> again - and it WON'T. But I've prevented it by being extremely careful
> of men, by not trusting anyone including my own judgement - it was
> pretty faulty before, remember. And it has caused me to be prepared to
> be more violent than I really think is right, but if anyone ever lays
> hand on me or my daughter, I have no intention of allowing it, or "fighting
> fair".
>
> I don't know what that guy is doing now, but I would prefer to know
> that he's in jail. Even my disinclination to support scum at state expense
> doesn't prevent me from hoping he's locked up and not hurting anyone else.
> But then I have never heard of a guy being locked up for such behavior, and
> certainly not punished (and no, prison is not for reform, it's for punishment
> or at least to keep them off the streets).
>
> I wouldn't mind a little revenge myself. I would prefer to have back a
> life without terror, a life where I could depend at least on the people
> I know behaving in a semi-decent manner, but I don't get that option.
>
> > I'm for attitude adjustment (right on top of the head with a
> > sawed of piece of piss-elm pick handle) for wife and child beaters.
> > That also goes for damned belligerant barroom brawlers.
> >
> >
> > This has been a public service anouncement from the Maplewood Mind
> > Moulders Association. Tom Frye President
> >
> > What about husband beaters, Tom. People, don't forget that Spouse Abuse goes
> > both ways. More over it is a symptom of peoples lack of respect for others.
> > Your tails and solutions are not much better than the problem, Tom.
> > Unfortunately lifes not fair yet. Let's work at promoting peace and solving
> > problems rather than getting revenge and creating more problems. Don't get the
> > wrong idear here. I'm not saying let anyone beat on you. If you are attacked
> > then it is necessary to defend you and yours but getting revenge is not going
> > to help as milleniums of histories of feuds show. After the attack you need to
> > concentrate on prevention, not revenge.
> >
> > --- ---
> > <o > <o >
> > /_
> > -==-
> > iiii -Walter.
> > "Can anyone really hear me?"
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