jj@alice.UUCP (10/21/85)
> > > wears a skirt loses power(being like a woman). > > > > Um, Scottish highlanders have worn kilts for a long time. > > I assume this discussion refers to modern U. S. society. Try going to > your next business meeting, or for that matter, just walking down the > street in a kilt. Seriously, if anyone makes fun of my kilt, I drop my caber on them. (Makes for a quieter life. Seriously, I don't think that Scottish customs are the point, now. This conversation has diverged so far from the original that it's pointless. A question: I have a bad neck. As a result, it's bigger around than normal, and sensitive to pressure. Why do I HAVE to wear a necktie on "formal occasions"? Frankly, I like to breathe, and to be able to look 90 degrees to either side of where I'm standing without pain. A comment: Everybody suffers from the stupid, ignorant, foolish, anal-retentive rules of femine dress, including men. Likewise, everyone suffers because all those men are damnably uncomfortable and feel stupid wearing nooses. I won't claim that you like it, please don't claim that I like it. 'Nuff said? -- SUPPORT SECULAR TEDDY-BEAR-ISM. "My family name is Johnston, my given name James, and I come from between the Douglass's" (ihnp4/allegra)!alice!jj
rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (10/22/85)
> A comment: > Everybody suffers from the stupid, ignorant, foolish, > anal-retentive rules of femine dress, including men. > Likewise, everyone suffers because all those men > are damnably uncomfortable and feel stupid wearing nooses. > > I won't claim that you like it, please don't claim > that I like it. 'Nuff said? [JJ] But some people DO like wearing neckties and "feminine" dresses. What's wrong with that? The only thing I can think of that's wrong with it is if the necktie doesn't go with the dress. :-) -- "Wait a minute. '*WE*' decided??? *MY* best interests????" Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr
lee@dsi1.UUCP (Lee Hagerty) (10/23/85)
> I have a bad neck. As a result, it's bigger around than > normal, and sensitive to pressure. Why do I HAVE to wear > a necktie on "formal occasions"? Frankly, I like to breathe, and > to be able to look 90 degrees to either side of where I'm standing > without pain. You don't HAVE to wear a necktie--you choose to wear one. It may be that you won't be allowed to attend the "formal occasion" if you don't wear a necktie or it may be that you don't want all of the attention (social embarrassment) that would result from being the only male without a necktie. In any event, it is YOU that chooses! Have you tried wearing your tie loosely around your neck? It haven't seen it written anywhere that a tie is suppose be worn in such a way as to make the veins in your neck stand out. Lee
meister@linus.UUCP (Phillip W. Servita) (10/25/85)
In article <4472@alice.UUCP> jj@alice.UUCP writes: >A question: > > I have a bad neck. As a result, it's bigger around than >normal, and sensitive to pressure. Why do I HAVE to wear >a necktie on "formal occasions"? Frankly, I like to breathe, and >to be able to look 90 degrees to either side of where I'm standing >without pain. >A comment: > Everybody suffers from the stupid, ignorant, foolish, >anal-retentive rules of femine dress, including men. > Likewise, everyone suffers because all those men >are damnably uncomfortable and feel stupid wearing nooses. reply (and embedded flame): I dont have a bad neck. As a result, it hates ties anyway. By the way, I DONT have to wear neckties on "formal occasions". Neither do you. If a certain group of people is going to judge you by the amount, color, style, etc. of certain organic or synthetic fibers you stick on your body, THEY ARE NOT WORTH YOUR TIME. Neither i nor anybody else has any right to dictate fashion unto others. unfortunately it will take many more of my kind to dispel the myth of (clothes == personal worth), or the even worse predicate it is becoming: (personal worth = clothes) (note "=" versus "=="). Im sick of the BULLSH*T. Im sick of HS graduates that can only read the words "Gloria Vanderbilt", im sick of high-society rip-offs that can only read "Pierre Cardan" (i dont care if that is the correct spelling or not) Now before someone flames back "well, we'll just see how far this one gets", I dont really care. food and a roof are enough. (well, i like my bicycle) What in the world can you do with a vice- presidentship, 5 BMW's, 80 hour workweeks, and a Heart Condition? Flame Off. (direct replies to net.flame) -the venn buddhist. here today, here tomorrow. -- ----------------------------------------------- "Of course the Nielsen ratings are accurate... We proved it in a taste test!" ----------------------------------------------- -the venn buddhist
jeff@rtech.UUCP (Jeff Lichtman) (10/26/85)
> > Why do I HAVE to wear > > a necktie on "formal occasions"? > > You don't HAVE to wear a necktie--you choose to wear one... Umm, I have all kinds of things I'd like to say about neckties, but this is net.women. This newsgroup is for the discussion of women's issues. I don't think that men having to wear neckties fits here. Let's not let this discussion devolve into a bunch of men moaning about their problems in a forum where women are supposed to moan about *their* problems. :-) -- Jeff Lichtman at rtech (Relational Technology, Inc.) "Saints should always be judged guilty until they are proved innocent..." {amdahl, sun}!rtech!jeff {ucbvax, decvax}!mtxinu!rtech!jeff
mcewan@uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU (10/27/85)
>> I have a bad neck. As a result, it's bigger around than >> normal, and sensitive to pressure. Why do I HAVE to wear >> a necktie on "formal occasions"? Frankly, I like to breathe, and > > Neckties can fit a large neck or a small one equally well -- > they're not like belts with a limited number of holes; you tie them > to suit yourself, you know. My experience is that what produces > that strangled feeling is not the necktie, but a shirt with the > wrong size collar. It seems to be easy to get into the habit of > buying size N and never realizing that size N+1 would fit better. It's kind of difficult to get a larger size when you're already wearing the largest that most stores carry (you can go to a big men's shop, but they have a smaller selection and often charge more). If you're neck is disproportionately large, I would imagine that a shirt with the right size collar would have sleaves that hang down to your knees. Scott McEwan {ihnp4,pur-ee}!uiucdcs!mcewan "Analysis, Spock?" "Very bad poetry, sir."
preece@ccvaxa.UUCP (10/28/85)
> It's kind of difficult to get a larger size when you're already wearing > the largest that most stores carry (you can go to a big men's shop, but > they have a smaller selection and often charge more). If you're neck is > disproportionately large, I would imagine that a shirt with the right > size collar would have sleaves that hang down to your knees. > Scott McEwan {ihnp4,pur-ee}!uiucdcs!mcewan ---------- Well, the discussion started out talking about dress shirts (the sort you'd wear with a tie). Those generally come with separately specified collar and sleeve sizes. Let's bring this back to net.women by noting how unfair it is that women's clothes use single component sizes while men's generally have two component sizes... -- scott preece gould/csd - urbana ihnp4!uiucdcs!ccvaxa!preece
jj@alice.UUCP (10/28/85)
Well, Lee of the ambiguous first name, you're right that I don't HAVE to wear a tie. I don't have to wear a tie in EXACTLY the same way that a woman doesn't HAVE to wear "feminine" clothing. Since this is net.women, and we're talking about stupid requirements of society, your point is utterly dishonest and deliberately baiting and misleading, and your behavior is offensive, rude, and inappropriate. Enough said! -- EVEN TEDDY BEARS HAVE LIMITED PATIENCE. "Sunset and evening star, and one clear call for netnews..." (ihnp4/allegra)!alice!jj
jpexg@mit-hermes.ARPA (John Purbrick) (10/30/85)
> Umm, I have all kinds of things I'd like to say about neckties, but this is > net.women. This newsgroup is for the discussion of women's issues. > -- Jeff Lichtman I emphatically disagree. The name of this newsgroup is simply a reflection of society's belief that men are the norm and women are exceptions. What we really need is "Net.sexroles"; that would better express the type of discussion that normnally takes place here. Note how easily we can say "women's issues", just as we can talk about "the position of minorities in society", but the "normal" sex (or race, or whatever) is difficult even to refer to. John Purbrick jpexg@mit-hermes.ARPA {...decvax!genrad! ...allegra!mit-vax!} mit-eddie!mit-hermes!jpexg
lee@dsi1.UUCP (Lee Hagerty) (10/31/85)
> Well, Lee of the ambiguous first name, you're > right that I don't HAVE to wear a tie. I don't > have to wear a tie in EXACTLY the same way that > a woman doesn't HAVE to wear "feminine" clothing. > > Since this is net.women, and we're talking about stupid > requirements of society, your point is utterly dishonest > and deliberately baiting and misleading, and your behavior > is offensive, rude, and inappropriate. > > Enough said! My point was very honest! It is you that chooses to follow the "stupid requirements of society." Your retort does prompt this from me: If you feel that wearing a tie is one of the "stupid requirements of society" and you don't HAVE to wear one, then why do you wear one?