wjr@frog.UUCP (STella Calvert) (02/09/86)
In article <15135@rochester.UUCP> ray@rochester.UUCP (Ray Frank) writes: >> Imagine you are are very attractive and >> dress accordingly. You are on the beach to get some sun and relax. >> >I would feel like dressing less accordingly. I'm sorry, Ray, that you don't feel you have the right, or power, to defend yourself and your personal (relocatable) turf. I do not wear the clothes I wear to "pass" as one or another kind of person. I'm perfectly capable of telling someone, if I want them to know, what kind of person I am. I dress to please myself, suit the season, and delight my companions IN THAT ORDER. Note that sending allegedly clear signals to "perfect and preferably" strangers isn't even on the list. That's what my mouth is for -- why lay the job on my wardrobe? (After all, it has enough trouble suiting me, keeping me warm through the winter or cool in the summer, and getting the occasional grin from a friend. Expecting it to pass messages too is impractical till we get flexible screens and built-in keyboards.) Seriously, this "women who dress like that are asking for it" argument is just silly. Silly? Yup. There exist folks who make a good living by picking pockets. Does this mean you feel like carrying no money? There exist folks who shout crude cracks at people (especially women) who don't live up to their standards of svelteness. Does this mean I weld myself into a windowless room? No matter what you do, or where you do it, you may encounter people who misinterpret your actions, appearance, or words. Setting them straight, as politely as your gods permit, as firmly as necessary, is the only real defense. Really Ray, it's not that hard. Why, even a woman can do it. 8-) STella Calvert Every man and every woman is a star. Guest on: ...!decvax!frog!wjr Life: Baltimore!AnnArbor!Smyrna!<LotsOfHitchhikingAndShortVisits> !SantaCruz!Berkeley!AnnArbor!Taxachusetts Future: ... (!L5!TheBelt!InterstellarSpace)
mat@mtx5a.UUCP (m.terribile) (02/15/86)
> >> Imagine you are are very attractive and > >> dress accordingly. You are on the beach to get some sun and relax. > >> > >I would feel like dressing less accordingly. > > . . . I dress to please myself, suit the season, and > delight my companions IN THAT ORDER. Note that sending allegedly > clear signals to "perfect and preferably" strangers isn't even on the > list. That's what my mouth is for -- why lay the job on my wardrobe? > . . . > Seriously, this "women who dress like that are asking for it" argument > is just silly. > > Silly? Yup. > Unfortunately, it's not. In this culture men and women are brought up to different norms. Not ``I wanna be a fireman''/``I wanna be a nurse'' but ``I dress for myself''/``I dress for others''. I cannot understand why women dress the way they do, often wearing shoes, for example, that are both uncomfortable and damaging, and then say that they are doing it because it makes THEM feel good. I KNOW it's true; they are not lying. But it is so contrary to my experience that I cannot get my gut to believe it. I am actually revolted by the thought of dressing to bolster my self-worth. Others, perhaps, are merely embarassed by it ... or humiliated. Not all men feel this way, but I'd bet a sizeable sum that most men who dress well do it for others. And that many, like me, can believe in their head that women dress first for women and third or fourth for men, but cannot believe it in their gut, where it really matters day-to-day. Remember also that in large segments of our society, men STILL have to initiate social contact with women. They've been taught, by role model and by feedback, that this is what they are to do. Many (most?) are not inclined to analyze themselves or their situations to see what is really happening. Finally, some women worsen matters by encouraging the jerks. I knew one who got her work done by pretending that she couldn't and purring ``Oh, you're so smart'' as some man at the firm did it for her. I felt real sorry for her, but when she came to me and started to purr, I told her quietly ``Alice, I don't play that game'' I never saw her in my office again. Pity. I would rather have friends than enemies. And I would rather have her as a friend than as a sort of a low-grade prostitute. But that was the only relationship that she could see having with a male colleague. -- from Mole End Mark Terribile (scrape .. dig ) mtx5b!mat (Please mail to mtx5b!mat, NOT mtx5a! mat, or to mtx5a!mtx5b!mat) ,.. .,, ,,, ..,***_*.