ladkin@kestrel.ARPA (Peter Ladkin) (02/26/86)
In article <1973@hao.UUCP>, woods@hao.UUCP (Greg Woods) writes: > How much sleep you need is almost totally a product of how much you *think* > you need; given the proper motivation, you could probably make do with a lot > less than you now get. [....] > [on the topic of the disastrous effects of losing sleep...] > More likely, though, it's a product of your belief that > you can't function without X hours of sleep a night. Such beliefs tend > to become self-fulfilling prophecies. I disagree strongly with these comments on sleep. I cannot work effectively on little sleep (meaning 6 hours instead of my normal 8+) despite years of graduate school trying to do it. And it does affect my dating habits - it's more important. Age may have something to do with it. Peter Ladkin
booter@lll-crg.ARpA (Elaine Richards) (02/27/86)
In article <5162@kestrel.ARPA> ladkin@kestrel.ARPA (Peter Ladkin) writes: >In article <1973@hao.UUCP>, woods@hao.UUCP (Greg Woods) writes: >> How much sleep you need is almost totally a product of how much you *think* >> you need; given the proper motivation, you could probably make do with a lot >> less than you now get. [....] >> [on the topic of the disastrous effects of losing sleep...] >> More likely, though, it's a product of your belief that >> you can't function without X hours of sleep a night. Such beliefs tend >> to become self-fulfilling prophecies. > >I disagree strongly with these comments on sleep. I cannot work >effectively on little sleep (meaning 6 hours instead of my >normal 8+) despite years of graduate school trying to do it. >And it does affect my dating habits - it's more important. >Age may have something to do with it. > I agree with Peter. When I was 20, I could go 20 hours and then, literally lose my eyesight. This is 1 hour after my ears started ringing. Toxins build up and mess up the works. Now, I am 29 and I can go 18 hours before gibbering inco- herently. I have had food poisoning many times and the effects of no sleep are similar (to me). I feel poisoned. Dating is definitely out of the question when I can't see, hear or digest my dinner. When you are down-to-the-bone tired sleep is *definitely* more fun than sex. E ***** The opinions are my own and do not reflect the management of my household :-)
woods@hao.UUCP (Greg Woods) (02/28/86)
It has become clear to me from the followups and replies I've been getting
that I have been misunderstood (probably due to my own poor writing style).
I am not trying to claim that there are NO physical limits as to how much
sleep you need; what I *am* saying is that many (if not most) people impose
limits upon themselves which are FAR SHORT of the actual physical limit
(even accounting for what are in reality relatively minor individual
differences in where this limit is).
Anyone who says they HAVE to have 8 hours (or X hours) a night is coming
from their beliefs and not physical reality, unless they have some special
debilitating medical condition (which, as far as I've heard, none of the
people in question on this net do). It's even worse when people use these
beliefs as an excuse to avoid telling someone who has asked them to do
something with them that they are just not interested (in other words, it
is a very thinly disguised lie). Think of it this way: if you avoid telling
someone you are not interested, and you make it sound as though you might
be at some other time, guess what will happen? Right! They will ask again,
putting you into the exact same position you were trying to avoid the last
time. Avoidance doesn't work. If you're not interested you will probably
have to say so eventually anyway, so you might as well save you (*and* them!)
a lot of grief and say so up front, not come up with a lot of BS excuses.
(Obviously, this applies to other excuses besides sleep).
--Greg
--
{ucbvax!hplabs | decvax!noao | mcvax!seismo | ihnp4!seismo}
!hao!woods
CSNET: woods@ncar.csnet ARPA: woods%ncar@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA
"If the game is lost, we're all the same;
No one left to place or take the blame"terry@nrcvax.UUCP (Terry Grevstad) (03/04/86)
woods@hao.UUCP (Greg Woods) says: > > It has become clear to me from the followups and replies I've been getting >that I have been misunderstood (probably due to my own poor writing style). >I am not trying to claim that there are NO physical limits as to how much >sleep you need; what I *am* saying is that many (if not most) people impose >limits upon themselves which are FAR SHORT of the actual physical limit >(even accounting for what are in reality relatively minor individual >differences in where this limit is). > Anyone who says they HAVE to have 8 hours (or X hours) a night is coming >from their beliefs and not physical reality, unless they have some special >debilitating medical contidion. You're right. Most people do not need 8 hours of sleep every single night. And on those occasions when they really do need the sleep that particular night, explaining the reasons for it is not too much to ask. (My child was up with the flue all night last night and I've really got to try and get some sleep tonight, sorry. Maybe another night.) However, there are physical conditions which require more sleep. For example, chemical depressions and/or pyschological depressions: People suffering from one or the other of these may require enormous amounts of sleep, and are virtually impossible to rouse. The chemical depression can often be overcome with anti-depressants, and the individual starts sleeping less. And of course, there are the various forms of narcolepsy which I really don't know anything about :-). -- \"\t\f1A\h'+1m'\f4\(mo\h'+1m'\f1the\h'+1m'\f4\(es\t\f1\c _______________________________________________________________________ Terry Grevstad Network Research Corporation ihnp4!nrcvax!terry {sdcsvax,hplabs}!sdcrdcf!psivax!nrcvax!terry ucbvax!calma!nrcvax!terry
wasaunders@watdragon.UUCP (Deus Ex Machina) (03/05/86)
In article <525@nrcvax.UUCP> terry@nrcvax.UUCP (Terry Grevstad) writes: >woods@hao.UUCP (Greg Woods) says: >> >> It has become clear to me from the followups and replies I've been getting >>that I have been misunderstood (probably due to my own poor writing style). >>I am not trying to claim that there are NO physical limits as to how much >>sleep you need; what I *am* saying is that many (if not most) people impose >>limits upon themselves which are FAR SHORT of the actual physical limit >>(even accounting for what are in reality relatively minor individual >>differences in where this limit is). >> Anyone who says they HAVE to have 8 hours (or X hours) a night is coming >>from their beliefs and not physical reality, unless they have some special >>debilitating medical contidion. > >You're right. Most people do not need 8 hours of sleep every single >night. And on those occasions when they really do need the sleep that >particular night, explaining the reasons for it is not too much to >ask. (My child was up with the flue all night last night and I've >really got to try and get some sleep tonight, sorry. Maybe another >night.) > True, but I know personally that the best way to keep myself functional is to get 8 hours of sleep per night. Less than that means I feel tired the next day, and I have to sleep in the afternoon. The problem with getting less than 8 hours is not so much that I can't function the NEXT day, but over a period of time the lack accumulates until I sleep two or three 12 hour nights. Thus the best solution is to sleep 8 hours every night. Alec Saunders.
rb@ccivax.UUCP (rex ballard) (03/11/86)
I tried to mail to you but can't get a path to your machine. In article <525@watdragon.UUCP> wasaunders@watdragon.UUCP (Deus Ex Machina) writes: >True, but I know personally that the best way to keep myself functional is >to get 8 hours of sleep per night. Less than that means I feel tired the next >day, and I have to sleep in the afternoon. The problem with getting less than >8 hours is not so much that I can't function the NEXT day, but over a period >of time the lack accumulates until I sleep two or three 12 hour nights. Thus >the best solution is to sleep 8 hours every night. > Alec Saunders. Have you had a recent medical checkup? It is possible that you have longer natural cycles, but needing a lot of sleep can also be symtoms of things such as high blood pressure, anemia (sp?), suffocation (many loud snorers acutually have adnoids or tonsils blocking their air passages). Certain emotional disorders can also cause problems. This may also be side effects of being overweight, smoking, drinking, certain drugs and medication, poor diet, or ?? It may be nothing, but if you have been this way for a while, your doctor may be able to determine one or more changes that will help you need less sleep, and feel better as well.
gmack@cisden.UUCP (Gregg Mackenzie) (03/11/86)
In article <525@watdragon.UUCP> Alec Saunders writes: >The problem with getting less than >8 hours is not so much that I can't function the NEXT day, but over a period >of time the lack accumulates until I sleep two or three 12 hour nights. Thus >the best solution is to sleep 8 hours every night. This is not how sleep works. Once you lose sleep, it is gone. It does not accumulate and you cannot "catch up" on it. We each have a certain amount that is optimal for us, but it varies with many factors including daily activity level and diet. It also varies between individuals. The best solution is to sleep when you're tired, (instead of saying, "Well, 'MASH' is over, it's 11:00, it's time for bed"; what if you're not tired? Do you go to bed anyway, just because it's your bedtime?), and get up when you wake up (rather than looking at the clock and saying, "Oh, I've only had 7-1/2 hours of sleep instead of the 8 that I need to function, so I'm still tired and I'm going back to sleep for a half-hour"; what if you feel refreshed after only 5 hours? Do you go back to sleep just because your clock tells you to? What makes your clock so supreme that it can tell you what to do?). If you've ever watched little kids and wondered where they get all their energy, there's your answer: they get it from their sleeping habits, i.e., sleeping when they're tired and getting up when they're done. That's also the best way to eat: eat when you're hungry and until you're full, not because it's lunchtime or because there's food left. Gregg Mackenzie cisden!gmack
ins_aset@jhunix.UUCP (Susanne E Trowbridge) (03/13/86)
> > The best solution is to sleep when you're tired, (instead of saying, > "Well, 'MASH' is over, it's 11:00, it's time for bed"; what if you're > not tired? Do you go to bed anyway, just because it's your bedtime?), > and get up when you wake up (rather than looking at the clock and saying, > "Oh, I've only had 7-1/2 hours of sleep instead of the 8 that I need to > function, so I'm still tired and I'm going back to sleep for a half-hour"; > what if you feel refreshed after only 5 hours? Do you go back to sleep > just because your clock tells you to? What makes your clock so supreme > that it can tell you what to do?). > > Gregg Mackenzie > cisden!gmack Well, Gregg, that sounds just lovely. But what about those of us who have to be at work at 8? If I slept until I "felt refreshed," I'd undoubtedly be fired for showing up about four hours late for work... -- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Sue Trowbridge "You put two mirrors up against each other, and there's infinity, but you can never see it, 'cause your head blocks it off." --Robyn Hitchcock bitnet: ins_aset@jhunix.BITNET arpa : ins_aset%jhunix.BITNET@wiscvm.WISC.EDU uucp : ...{ihnp4!whuxcc | seismo!umcp-cs | allegra!hopkins} jhunix!ins_aset OR ...decvax!decuac!aplvax!aplcen!jhunix!ins_aset
wasaunders@watdragon.UUCP (Alec Saunders) (03/14/86)
In article <548@cisden.UUCP> gmack@cisden.UUCP (Gregg Mackenzie) writes: >This is not how sleep works. Once you lose sleep, it is gone. It does >not accumulate and you cannot "catch up" on it. We each have a certain >amount that is optimal for us, but it varies with many factors including >daily activity level and diet. It also varies between individuals. > >The best solution is to sleep when you're tired, (instead of saying, >"Well, 'MASH' is over, it's 11:00, it's time for bed"; what if you're >not tired? Do you go to bed anyway, just because it's your bedtime?), >and get up when you wake up (rather than looking at the clock and saying, >"Oh, I've only had 7-1/2 hours of sleep instead of the 8 that I need to >function, so I'm still tired and I'm going back to sleep for a half-hour"; >what if you feel refreshed after only 5 hours? Do you go back to sleep >just because your clock tells you to? What makes your clock so supreme >that it can tell you what to do?). Sure, I go to sleep when I'm tired .... but I get up for class at either 9:00 or 7:00 every day. So I can't sleep until I'm done sleeping. When I'm on a work term I sleep when I want for how long (flex time). Whether or not you "accumulate" a lack of sleep is irrelevant. If you wake up tired one day, then don't sleep enough that night you wake up MORE tired the next day, and so on... Point is that if you have a rigid timetable to stick to your better off getting a set amount of sleep (good for you or not ...) -- Alec Saunders wasaunders!watdragon!watnot!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses ...!cbosgd!ihnp4 ...!vt200!linus "Parallel hair???? Who needs it!"
nazgul@apollo.uucp (Kee Hinckley) (03/14/86)
In article <548@cisden.UUCP> gmack@cisden.UUCP (Gregg Mackenzie) writes: > In article <525@watdragon.UUCP> Alec Saunders writes: > >The problem with getting less than > >8 hours is not so much that I can't function the NEXT day, but over a period > >of time the lack accumulates until I sleep two or three 12 hour nights. Thus > >the best solution is to sleep 8 hours every night. > > This is not how sleep works. Once you lose sleep, it is gone. It does > not accumulate and you cannot "catch up" on it. We each have a certain > amount that is optimal for us, but it varies with many factors including > daily activity level and diet. It also varies between individuals. That's what my SO keeps telling me, but it doesn't explain how I got through college averaging 7 hours of sleep per night. 5 on weekdays and 12 on weekends. :-) -nazgul -- ...decvax!wanginst!apollo!nazgul Probable-Possible, my black hen, She lays eggs in the Relative When. She doesn't lay eggs in the Positive Now Because she's unable to Postulate How. A Space Child's Mother Goose
kwh@bentley.UUCP (KW Heuer) (03/16/86)
In article <548@cisden.UUCP> cisden!gmack (Gregg Mackenzie) writes: >The best solution is to sleep when you're tired ... Some of the folks who knew me at Caltech can testify that I used to keep 30-hour days (average). Unfortunately that doesn't work well if you have a 9-to-17 job, or classes you're expected to attend. >That's also the best way to eat: eat when you're hungry and until you're >full, not because it's lunchtime or because there's food left. This I still do, subject to restrictions on when the cafeteria is open. Karl W. Z. Heuer (ihnp4!bentley!kwh), The Walking Lint
scott@hou2g.UUCP (Mr. Berry) (03/18/86)
>That's also the best way to eat: eat when you're hungry and until you're >full, not because it's lunchtime or because there's food left. Actually, I believe the best thing to do (that doesn't mean *I* always do it!) is to eat until you're NOT HUNGRY, not until you're FULL. There is a big difference. ========================================= "Diplomats. The best diplomat *I* know is a fully loaded phasor bank." Scott J. Berry ihnp4!hou2g!scott
gmack@cisden.UUCP (Gregg Mackenzie) (03/20/86)
In article <592@watdragon.UUCP> (Alec Saunders) writes: >In article <548@cisden.UUCP> gmack@cisden.UUCP (Gregg Mackenzie) writes: >> >>The best solution is to sleep when you're tired, .... >>.... and get up when you wake up > >Point is that if you have a rigid timetable to stick to your better off getting >a set amount of sleep (good for you or not ...) Okay, okay, okay! Maybe sleeping when you're tired and getting up when you're done isn't very practical, as several people have pointed out to me in articles and mail (Sure don't havta hit ME over th' with a 2b'4 ta git my attention...huh-uh...no sir...not me...:-). But, I still say it's the "best" solution for healthy sleep. Another good solution for your health is to use the buddy-system. But then, that could make you late for work, too! :-) Gregg Mackenzie cisden!gmack
whitehur@tymix.UUCP (Pamela K. Whitehurst) (03/21/86)
In article <562@cisden.UUCP> gmack@cisden.UUCP (Gregg Mackenzie) writes: >Okay, okay, okay! Maybe sleeping when you're tired and getting up when >you're done isn't very practical, as several people have pointed out to >me in articles and mail (Sure don't havta hit ME over th' with a 2b'4 ta >git my attention...huh-uh...no sir...not me...:-). But, I still say it's >the "best" solution for healthy sleep. >Another good solution for your health is to use the buddy-system. But >then, that could make you late for work, too! :-) Only if your 'buddy' is an alarm clock! Now, I don't mind occasionally waking someone up in the morning; especially if I kept them up late. Normally I like peace and solitude in the morning. It may be the only time I can find it. Being responsible for someone else getting out of bed is not my idea of a good morning. I'd rather wait for someone to wake up on their own. -- Pamela K. Whitehurst ...!hplabs!oliveb!tymix!whitehur