kemasa@sdcc13.UUCP (kemasa) (02/26/86)
Dear netusers,
I have a question for you, and also a new subject. If
someone commits a crime at what point do you turn them in or do
you? Meaning if they are a friend, just someone you know, etc.
and based on what they did hurt someone, stole money (0-100,100-
1000,1k-10k,etc), etc. I would prefer not to have to report
someone, hoping that the person would never do such a thing, but
I doubt that will ever happen.
The reason I ask is that a person that I used to be
friends with committed insurance fraud along with filing a
false police report, I heard this second hand and have no real
proof, but if I notify someone it could be proved. The per-
sons that know and have proof, ie saw what happened, etc. are
not going to say anything. It really bothers me as most of
us pay for insurance and it really comes out of everyone's pock-
et. As it turns out if I do report it to Public Insurance
service (the person is not insured by them) they will pay $5000
for fraud againest any insurance company if the person is
found guilty, as for the $5k I think if I did that I would turn
it over to charity. But I also think of what this could do
to someone's life.
This got me thinking and wondering what other people think
about this. I am not looking to be told what to do, that is a
personal decision, but I want to know what other people think
about this.
Kemasa.
...sdcsvax!sdcc13!kemasa (It's the only path I know)kemasa@sdcc6.UUCP (kemasa) (02/26/86)
Dear netusers,
I have a question for you, and also a new subject. If
someone commits a crime at what point do you turn them in or do
you? Meaning if they are a friend, just someone you know, etc.
and based on what they did hurt someone, stole money (0-100,100-
1000,1k-10k,etc), etc. I would prefer not to have to report
someone, hoping that the person would never do such a thing, but
I doubt that will ever happen.
The reason I ask is that a person that I used to be
friends with committed insurance fraud along with filing a
false police report, I heard this second hand and have no real
proof, but if I notify someone it could be proved. The per-
sons that know and have proof, ie saw what happened, etc. are
not going to say anything. It really bothers me as most of
us pay for insurance and it really comes out of everyone's pock-
et. As it turns out if I do report it to Public Insurance
Service (the person is not insured by them) they will pay $5000
for fraud againest any insurance company if the person is
found guilty, as for the $5k I think if I did that I would turn
it over to charity. But I also think of what this could do
to someone's life.
This got me thinking and wondering what other people think
about this. I am not looking to be told what to do, that is a
personal decision, but I want to know what other people think
about this.
Kemasa.
...sdcsvax!sdcc13!kemasa (It's the only path I know)
P.S. This is a second try at posting this, the other seems to
have gotten lost, sorry if you get two copies. The reason I
posted this to net.women and net.single is that I can't think of
another single group that would answer such a question.wcl@hjuxa.UUCP (Bill Loeffler) (03/01/86)
In article <2444@sdcc6.UUCP>, kemasa@sdcc6.UUCP (kemasa) writes: > Dear netusers, > > I have a question for you, and also a new subject. If > someone commits a crime at what point do you turn them in or do > you? Meaning if they are a friend, just someone you know, etc. > and based on what they did hurt someone, stole money (0-100,100- > 1000,1k-10k,etc), etc. I would prefer not to have to report > someone, hoping that the person would never do such a thing, but > I doubt that will ever happen. My opinion is that I would not turn in a friend for any crime that did not have some "direct" affect upon me. Sure, how that person is looked at as a friend in the future would be an issue. In cases other than "friends", I'm not really sure. I once learned in high school: "A man that rats on another man, is a dead man". -- Bill Loeffler Digital Equipment Corp., Holmdel NJ 07733 uucp: ...!{decvax,ihnp4}!hjuxa!wcl
rdh@sun.uucp (Robert Hartman) (03/05/86)
In article <2444@sdcc6.UUCP> kemasa@sdcc6.UUCP (kemasa) writes: >If someone commits a crime at what point do you turn them in or do >you? >... a person that I used to be >friends with committed insurance fraud along with filing a >false police report, I heard this second hand and have no real >proof, but if I notify someone it could be proved. >... As it turns out if I do report it to Public Insurance >Service (the person is not insured by them) they will pay $5000 >for fraud againest any insurance company if the person is >found guilty, as for the $5k I think if I did that I would turn >it over to charity. I don't "turn in" people I love or respect if there is no violence involved. If there is violence, I will do whatever needs to be done to stop it and protect the victims from future abuse. Shy of that, just about any situation can be amended if the person wants to make things right. If the person DOESN'T, then I dissociate myself lest they pull some crap on me, or attempt to ivolve me in their problems. I also lose enough respect so that I MIGHT turn them in if they managed to involve me a second time. I would never turn someone in unless I could produce the proof MYSELF. Knowing someone who has said that there is proof isn't good enough, and you could get yourself into hot water by defaming someone unless YOU have the evidence to back it up. Since you don't particularly care about the money, maybe you can act as some sort of a go-between for the investigators and the people who actually have the proof. -bob.
mdf@osu-eddie.UUCP (Mark D. Freeman) (03/06/86)
Summary: In article <2444@sdcc6.UUCP> kemasa@sdcc6.UUCP (kemasa) writes: >If someone commits a crime at what point do you turn them in or do >you? Seven years ago (just over the statues of limitations), my roommate at the time found a girl's checkbook in a dormitory parking lot. The register indicated that there was about $900 in the account. He proceeded to pull some strings and have a Student ID made with his girlfriend's face and the victim's name on it. They then took the Id and the checkbook and went shopping for stereo equipment at a store that he knew didn't ask for much ID when checks were involved. He bought about $800 worth of merchandise, which his girlfriend paid for with one of the found checks. I knew about the whole plan from the beginning. What was my responsibility? Well, I asked him what he felt about the girl whose money he was stealing. He didn't seem to care at all. So, my decision was to move the damage to a party that I felt could whether the loss of $800 more than someone with only $900. I called the bank and reported the checkbook stolen. My roommate got his stereo, and the girl kept her money. The bank bounced the stolen check and the stereo store had to eat it. I suppose that I should have turned him in, but I just didn't feel right about it. I certainly couldn't sit and watch him steal almost all of some poor girl's tuition money, so I found a compromise. Before I left town, I rendered the stereo inoperable, and for all practical purposes, unrepairable. -- < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < <> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark D. Freeman mdf@osu-eddie.uucp StrongPoint Systems, Inc. mdf@osu-eddie.arpa Guest account at The Ohio State University !cbosgd!osu-eddie!mdf I speak, therefore I disclaim everything I say. < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < <> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
mc68020@gilbbs.UUCP (Tom Keller) (03/07/86)
In article <491@sdcc13.UUCP>, kemasa@sdcc13.UUCP (kemasa) writes: > Dear netusers, > > I have a question for you, and also a new subject. If > someone commits a crime at what point do you turn them in or do > you? Meaning if they are a friend, just someone you know, etc. > and based on what they did hurt someone, stole money (0-100,100- > 1000,1k-10k,etc), etc. I would prefer not to have to report > someone, hoping that the person would never do such a thing, but > I doubt that will ever happen. I believe that there is a certain dilemma here, between what is wholly ethical, and what is considered loyalty. To state the trivial (superficially) case, if a friend jay walks, or runs a stop in their car, do you report them? Most probably not (among other reasons, you wouldn't have many friends if you did). Do you report a person who smokes a little marijuana now and then? I should think not, yet this *IS* a violation of the law. Do you report theft, fraud, violent crimes or property damage? I would have to think yes. Here we are dealing with crimes that have victims (aside from the perpetrator...certainly the heroin addict is a victim of his/her crime) who have been injured in some way. In the case of insurance fraud, not only are the shareholders in the insurance company deprived of their (legally defined) right to their profit, but all insranc consumers, and ultimately all consumers are injured through higher premiums, and the resulting increase in the costs of services and goods which naturally follows. Being s snitch is no fun. Informing the authorities of the commission of a serious crime is not being a snitch. -- ==================================== Disclaimer: I hereby disclaim any and all responsibility for disclaimers. tom keller {ihnp4, dual}!ptsfa!gilbbs!mc68020 (* we may not be big, but we're small! *)
gmack@cisden.UUCP (Gregg Mackenzie) (03/12/86)
{}
>>If someone commits a crime at what point do you turn them in or do you?
In article <1448@osu-eddie.UUCP> mdf@osu-eddie.UUCP (Mark D. Freeman) writes:
> [...Roommate finds checkbook...commits fraud, forgery, grand theft, who-
> knows-what-else,...Mark moves damage to party who can better afford it,...
> Mark breaks stereo before leaving town...]
>
>I knew about the whole plan from the beginning. What was my responsibility?
You should have told him you were going to turn him in if he went through
with it. Moving the damage did nothing; stealing is stealing regardless of
who can best afford the loss. How do you know that the stereo store was
better able to afford the loss than the girl? Maybe she was better off than
you think she was.
>I suppose that I should have turned him in,
>but I just didn't feel right about it. I certainly couldn't sit and watch him
>steal almost all of some poor girl's tuition money, so I found a compromise.
You didn't "feel right" about turning him in, but you felt right about
shifting the loss and about breaking the stereo? Obviously, you felt you
needed to do something, even if it was really nothing. Was he a good-
enough buddy that you couldn't turn him in, but not really *that* good a
buddy so that you could break "his" stereo? I don't like your code of
ethics, Mark.
If you didn't want to be the one to turn him in, another solution would have
been to call the stereo store and let them know he was on his way down and
let them call the cops. You could've called the girl whose checkbook it was
and told her who had it and then let her call the cops. At least she'd've
known what happened to her checkbook. I think you could've come up with a
better solution given the amount of time you had to think about it.
Gregg Mackenzie
cisden!gmackmat@mtx5a.UUCP (m.terribile) (03/20/86)
> {} > >>If someone commits a crime at what point do you turn them in or do you? > ... > > You didn't "feel right" about turning him in, but you felt right about > shifting the loss and about breaking the stereo? Obviously, you felt you > needed to do something, even if it was really nothing. Was he a good- > enough buddy that you couldn't turn him in, but not really *that* good a > buddy so that you could break "his" stereo? I don't like your code of > ethics, Mark. > > If you didn't want to be the one to turn him in, another solution would have > been to call the stereo store and let them know he was on his way down and > let them call the cops. You could've called the girl whose checkbook it was > and told her who had it and then let her call the cops. At least she'd've > known what happened to her checkbook. I think you could've come up with a > better solution given the amount of time you had to think about it. > > Gregg Mackenzie > cisden!gmack .....******%%%%######$$$$@@@@ sputter sizzle spUTTUT--*F*L*A*M*E*!*!*!*! Of all the self-rightous crap! The fellow came to this group with a mess of doubt and a willingness to learn and all you can do is complain about his ethics and see to it that he will be very reluctant to try to ask for advice again! Close down his way to self-improvement, that's it. He couldn't possibly ever be as moral and socially responsible as you. You wouldn't allow it. Well, Mr. Mackenzie, when did YOU find yourself in this bind? When did you have to make this kind of choice? I'm dying to hear how a pillar of moral strength such as yourself handled it! If indeed you ARE this pillar of moral strength, I hope that you appreciate the dilemma. If you DON'T, then your strength is not moral strength, it is dogma reduced to knee-jerking, without any trace of human compassion. Show us all how right you are and how wrong we are. Your ideas, your values are so good that it doesn't matter who gets injured by the concussion when they hit. Save it. -- from Mole End Mark Terribile (scrape .. dig ) mtx5b!mat (Please mail to mtx5b!mat, NOT mtx5a! mat, or to mtx5a!mtx5b!mat) ,.. .,, ,,, ..,***_*.
weemba@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Matthew P. Wiener) (03/25/86)
In article <1248@mtx5a.UUCP> mat@mtx5a.UUCP (m.terribile) writes: >> {} >> >>If someone commits a crime at what point do you turn them in or do you? >> >... >> >> You didn't "feel right" about turning him in, but you felt right about >> shifting the loss and about breaking the stereo? Obviously, you felt you >> needed to do something, even if it was really nothing. Was he a good- >> enough buddy that you couldn't turn him in, but not really *that* good a >> buddy so that you could break "his" stereo? I don't like your code of >> ethics, Mark. >> >> If you didn't want to be the one to turn him in, another solution would have >> been to call the stereo store and let them know he was on his way down and >> let them call the cops. You could've called the girl whose checkbook it was >> and told her who had it and then let her call the cops. At least she'd've >> known what happened to her checkbook. I think you could've come up with a >> better solution given the amount of time you had to think about it. >> > >Of all the self-rightous crap! The fellow came to this group with a mess >of doubt and a willingness to learn and all you can do is complain about >his ethics and see to it that he will be very reluctant to try to ask >for advice again! Close down his way to self-improvement, that's it. >He couldn't possibly ever be as moral and socially responsible as you. >You wouldn't allow it. Self-righteous crap? The fellow came with a story of how he did NOTHING to prevent his roommate from stealing. Honesty is honesty and cannot be winked at. I'm sure this person was motivated by the highest ideals and always left the room whenever the stereo was turned on, since he wanted to stay clean of the whole affair. Sure my ass. >Well, Mr. Mackenzie, when did YOU find yourself in this bind? When did you >have to make this kind of choice? I'm dying to hear how a pillar of moral >strength such as yourself handled it! I originally was going to flame the original just as McKenzie did, but I didn't. However, as I have been in such a bind, I'll tell you how I did it. A woman friend who puts me up whenever I visit the area was shoplifting from the food store she worked at. I was aghast, and told her so. She started giving me some line about her boss this and her boss that. Actually, I had once worked there too, so I knew what she was talking about. I also knew that she was being screwed by her ex-husband over alimony payments. So what did I do? I loaned her several hundred dollars, that's what I did. And I gave her an advance on the part of the rent I was paying. And I paid for the stolen groceries. Not so out of the way, considering I ate some of them. And we discussed the issue at length. I did not see any of the money back until years later, and then as reduced rent at her place. I was a graduate student, ie not rich, at the time. >If indeed you ARE this pillar of moral strength, I hope that you appreciate >the dilemma. WHAT DILEMMA? His roommate was STEALING==HURTING SOMEBODY, and there is NO dilemma. Get rid of the parasite as fast as possible. > If you DON'T, then your strength is not moral strength, it is >dogma reduced to knee-jerking, without any trace of human compassion. Is looking the other way when someone is BEING HURT "human compassion"? > Show >us all how right you are and how wrong we are. Your ideas, your values are >so good that it doesn't matter who gets injured by the concussion when they >hit. Are you flaming Gregg or the original spineless chickenshithead? Who the hell is injured by having ethical standards? >Save it. I will never look the other way. ucbvax!brahms!weemba Matthew P Wiener/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720