jdd@allegra.UUCP (08/19/83)
A while ago I posted a query about Lisps on 68000's. I got essentially zero
replies, so let me post what I know and see whether anyone can add to it.
First, Franz Lisp is being ported from the VAX to 68000's. However, the
ratio of random rumors to solid facts concerning this undertaking seems the
greatest since the imminent availability of NIL. Moreover, I don't really
like Franz; it has too many seams showing (I've had too many programs die
without warning from segmentation errors and the like).
Then there's T. T sounds good, but the people who are saying it's great are
the same ones trying to sell it to me for several thousand dollars, so I'd
like to get some more disinterested opinions first. The only person I've
talked to said it was awful, but he admits he used an early version.
I have no special knowledge of PSL, particularly of the user environment or
of how useful or standard its dialect looks, nor of the status of its 68000
version.
As for an eventual Common Lisp on a 68000, well, who knows?
There are also numerous toy systems floating around, but none I would
consider for serious work.
Well, that's about everything I know; can any correct me or add to the list?
Cheers,
John ("Don't Wanna Program in C") DeTreville
Bell Labs, Murray Hillpollack@uicsl.UUCP (08/25/83)
#R:allegra:-176000:uicsl:15500003:000:1393 uicsl!pollack Aug 24 17:55:00 1983 I played with a version of PSL on a HP 9845 for several hours one day. The environment was just like running FranzLisp under Emacs in "electric-lisp" mode. (However, the editor is written in PSL itself, so it is potentially much more powerful than the emacs on our VAX, with its screwy c/mock-lisp implementation.) The language is in the style of Maclisp (rather than INTERLISP) and uses standard scoping (rather than the lexical scoping of T). The machine has 512 by 512 graphics and a 2.5 dimensional window system, but neither are as fully integrated into the programming environment as on a Xerox Dolphin. Although I have no detailed benchmarks, I did port a context-free chart parser to it. The interpreter speed was not impressive, but was comparable with interpreted Franz on a VAX. However, the speed of compiled code was very impressive. The compiler is incremental, and built-in to the lisp system (like in INTERLISP), and caused about a 10-20 times speedup over interpreted code (my estimate is that both the Franz and INTERLISP-d compilers only net 2-5 times speedup). As a result, the compiled parser ran much faster on the 68000 than the same compiled program on a Dolphin. I think PSL is definitely a superior lisp for the 68000, but I have no idea whether is will be available for non-HP machines... Jordan Pollack University of Illinois ...pur-ee!uiucdcs!uicsl!pollack
KESSLER@UTAH-20@sri-unix.UUCP (08/30/83)
From: Robert R. Kessler <KESSLER@UTAH-20>
Date: 24 Aug 83 19:47:17-PDT (Wed)
From: pur-ee!uiucdcs!uicsl!pollack @ Ucb-Vax
Subject: Re: Lisps on 68000's - (nf)
Article-I.D.: uiucdcs.2626
....
I think PSL is definitely a superior lisp for the 68000, but I
have no idea whether is will be available for non-HP machines...
Jordan Pollack
University of Illinois
...pur-ee!uiucdcs!uicsl!pollack
Yes, PSL is available for other 68000's, particularly the Apollo. It
is also being released for the DecSystem-20 and Vax running 4.x Unix.
Send queries to
Cruse@Utah-20
Bob.MONTALVO@MIT-OZ@sri-unix.UUCP (08/30/83)
From: pur-ee!uiucdcs!uicsl!pollack @ Ucb-Vax
Subject: Re: Lisps on 68000's - (nf)
Article-I.D.: uiucdcs.2626
I played with a version of PSL on a HP 9845 for several hours one
day. The environment was just like running FranzLisp under Emacs
in ...
A minor correction so people don't get confused: it was probably an
HP 9836 not an HP 9845. I've used both machines including PSL on the
36, and doubt very much that PSL runs on a 45.pollack@uicsl.UUCP (09/02/83)
#R:allegra:-176000:uicsl:15500004:000:34 uicsl!pollack Sep 1 11:16:00 1983 sorry, it was a 9836, not a 9845.
Rees@YALE.ARPA@sri-unix.UUCP (09/06/83)
From: Jonathan Rees <Rees@YALE.ARPA>
Date: 19 Aug 83 10:52:11-PDT (Fri)
From: harpo!eagle!allegra!jdd @ Ucb-Vax
Subject: Lisps on 68000's
Article-I.D.: allegra.1760
... T sounds good, but the people who are saying it's
great are the same ones trying to sell it to me for several
thousand dollars, so I'd like to get some more disinterested
opinions first. The only person I've talked to said it was
awful, but he admits he used an early version.
T is distributed by Yale for $75 to universities and other non-profit
organizations.
Yale has not yet decided on the means by which it will distribute T to
for-profit institutions, but it has been negotiating with a few
companies, including Cognitive Systems, Inc. To my knowledge no final
agreements have been signed, so right now, no one can sell it.
"Supported" versions will be available from commercial outfits who are
willing to take on the extra responsibility (and reap the profits?),
but unsupported versions will presumably still be available directly
from Yale.
Regardless of the final outcome, no company or companies will have
exclusive marketing rights. We do not want a high price tag to
inhibit availability.
Jonathan Rees
T Project
Yale Computer Science Dept.
P.S. As a regular T user, I can say that it is a good system. As its
principal implementor, I won't claim to be disinterested.
Testimonials from satisfied users may be found in previous AILIST
digests; perhaps you can obtain back issues.