[net.ai] A pure conjecture on the nature of the self

jbn@glacier.ARPA (John B. Nagle) (10/20/86)

       Conjecture: the "sense of identity" comes from the same
mechanism that makes tickling yourself ineffective.

       This is not a frivolous comment.  The reflexes behind tickling
seem to be connected to something that has a good way of deciding
what is self and what isn't.  There are repeatable phenomena here that
can be experimented with.  This may be a point of entry for work on some
fundamental questions.  


					John Nagle

andrews@ubc-cs.UUCP (10/20/86)

In article <11786@glacier.ARPA> jbn@glacier.ARPA (John B. Nagle) writes:
>...  The reflexes behind tickling
>seem to be connected to something that has a good way of deciding
>what is self and what isn't.

     I would suspect it has more to do with "predictability" -- you
can predict, in some sense, where you feel tickling, therefore you
don't feel it in the same way.  It's similar to the blinking "reflex"
to a looming object; if the looming object is someone else's hand
you blink, if it's your hand you don't.

     The predictability may come from a sense of self, but I think
it's more likely to come from the fact that you're fully aware of
what is going to happen next when it's your own movements giving
the stimulus.

--Jamie.
...!seismo!ubc-vision!ubc-cs!andrews
"Now it's dark"

tdh@frog.UUCP (T. Dave Hudson) (10/21/86)

>        Conjecture: the "sense of identity" comes from the same
> mechanism that makes tickling yourself ineffective.

Suppose that tickling yourself may be ineffective because of your
mental focus.  Are you primarily focusing on the sensations in the
hand that is doing the tickling, not focusing, focusing on the idea
that it will of course be ineffective, or focusing on the sensations
created at the tickled site?

One of my major impediments to learning athletics was that I had no
understanding of what it meant when those rare competent teachers told
me to feel the prescribed motion.  It requires an act of focusing on
the sensations in the different parts of your body as you move.  Until
you become aware of the sensations, you can't do anything with them.
(Once you're aware of them, you have to learn how to deal with a
multitude of them, but that's a different issue.)

Try two experiments.

1) Walk forward, and concentrate on how your back feels.  Stop, then
   place your hand so that the palm and fingertips cover your lower
   back at the near side of the spine.  Now walk forward again.
   Notice anything new?

2) Run one hand's index fingertip very lightly over the back of the
   other hand, so lightly that you can barely feel anything on the back
   of the other hand, so lightly that maybe you're just touching the
   hairs on that hand and not the skin.  Close your eyes and try to
   sense where on the back of that hand the fingertip is as it moves.
   Now do you feel a tickling sensation?

				David Hudson