mp@ganehd.UUCP (Scott Barman @ Univ. of Ga.) (04/26/84)
>< Kill the bug. This is, more or less, a constructive reply to Tim Giebelhaus and his situation at the University of Minnesota. Being a recent graduate of the University of Georgia, I think I know how he feels. Tim states: >Department and the attitude about education in general in Minnesota. >I am a student studing Computer Science. I have enough credits and only >need 4 more classes to graduate. I attempted to sign up for all four of >these classes (all were offered). The only one I got was the one that >was not a CSci class. I think you will find this at any school. A friend of mine who graduated in 1982 from Penn found the same problem (he was not a computer science major). For me, I ran into a different problem: not being properly advised as a freshman or sophomore. After going through the infamous UGA graduation check and was told I had to stay an extra quarter because I was not properly advised in my beginning years, and need to take a couple of more classes. How to deal with this, I don't know. I bitterly complained and informed those involved how I felt, but to no avail. Universities are very overcrowded these days. It comes from the end of the baby boom and the fact that more students mean more money from governments (they use a formula based on enrolment). > I figured, "OK, but I am a graduating senior. Surely they will let me >in." HA!! I am not going to graduate. This I think is your own fault. At most places, I have heard that if you "sweet talk" the right professor (with apologies to those on the net), you may convince him/her to overload his class by 1. Using the "but you let so-and-so in" does not work either. I got into a class based on that I was not being offered my last quarter (fall) and it was full (35 people in a 25 seat room) because I was nice and explained the situation rationally to the prof. > Think of what this does to the quality of professors at the U of M. If >you were highly skilled and had your choice of where to teach, would work >at a school like this? I can't understand why the good teachers who are >left are here. I can understand why the dean of IT (the college that CSci >is under) quit. I don't think it has been replaced yet. I asked a professor here the same question and his answer bewildered me. First he said he liked to teach and do research. Then he said he liked the area. Then he explained the circumstances that his wife put on where they can go. It seems to boil down to that they like to do it and, for some reason, they like the area. Now I don't know about U. of Minn., but I know I do not want to be stuck in Athens, Ga for the rest of my life (no comments from Ga Tech, please). You might want to ask around about this. > I can't be too hard on the U of M. They are dependant on the state for >funds. The percentage used for education in the state is falling. I >think this is a great state, but I think that it in trouble. It is not >going to get all the high tech business that is so important to it if it >doesn't get it's act together. The only reason that I have for not >transfering today, is that I have a job here ... We in Georgia are in the same situation, but I think that the state realizes the importance of the hi tech industry after losing the MCC battle. The problem is who the politians are listening to. Here in Georgia, a man named James Carman is the Vice-Chancelor for Computing (U. System) and Director of the UGA Computer Center. He wouldn't know a bit if it jumped up to byte him! He is an agricultural statistition who started computing here in the early '60s when he got the school to buy an IBM 7094. He's been playing G*D in computing ever since. His policies and recomendations to the state and the University System has stifled computer science everywhere but Ga. Tech (one for you guys). It wasn't until recently (and this is 1984) that he is willing to try to do something for computer science on campus. You talk about computer access, at least you have access. Here at UGA there are (and I am NOT bragging) an IBM 3081 running OS/VS2/MVS TSO JES3 <one kluge after another>, an IBM 370/158 running OS/VS2 CICS/VS <the COBOLers operating system>, a CDC Cyber 170/750 running NOS 2.1 <I hate NOS>, a CDC Cyber 180/825 running PLATO <with limited access>, and two VAXes <used for some bull sh*t Computer Based Education Project>. To use any of these machines, the department you belong to must buy time. While PLATO is expensive (based on a stupid royalty system - no flames from Illinois or CDC please), the 370 is for the library stuff, the Cyber 750 is connected to the University System Network (a real joke), and the IBM 3081 is over $700/cpu hour. Pay for that with the miniscule funds they give us (we will run out of money in a week or so). What do the students use? An IBM 370/158 running VM. Under the partition the students use is an operating system called the McGill University System for Interactive Computing, MUSIC. One of the worst pieces of garbage on the face of this earth. It is nothing more than a glorified keypunch machine with terminals (all flames will be sent back after adding some gasoline!!!!!!). There are over 100 terminals attached to it and it slows down to a gentle crawl if there are over 70 users logged in. There are only two 1200 baud dial-ups and five 300 baud dial-ups. Don't complain about access until you try it in my environment. > Let me give you some numbers. Last year there were about 1200 CSci >Majors at the U of M. There are 18 professors. Many classes can have more >than 90 people in them. Most any required class will have at least 65 >people in it. This is insain. Let me give you some numbers: 1000 majors, 8.5 faculty (including masters level temporary positions - 3 counting as .5 faculty), classes over 100 people (including upper-level major classes), and English classes run with only 15-25 students (for 100, 101, 102). THIS is insane! I am not complaining about UGA, they are finally trying to improve (we all hope and pray it is successful), but realize, somewhere it is worse than U of Minn. (I hope not too many places are worse than UGA!!!!!!) Good luck, Tim. Write your congressman to complain, too. In an election year, they try to keep all groups happy. Here, the student chapter of the ACM has taken up the cause and has recieved some positive responses on it. Try it, what have you got to lose! Scott A. Barman (University of Georgia '83) ..!akgua!ganehd!mp P.S.: Non-constructive remarks from Ga Tech regarding UGA will result in the reproduction of the nastiest of Tech jokes in net.jokes (and I know most of them!).