jpm@bnl.UUCP (John McNamee) (11/18/84)
This is not in reply to any one particular message, but just some general thoughts I have on the subject. Let me start by saying I dont think there is any excuse for not providing some form of open computer access. I know machines can get very tied up just handling assigned classwork, but such tieups are not 24 hour a day, 365 day a year problems. A priority system could be set up so that people doing real work (as opposed to hacking) would get machine time when things got busy. Everybody loses when the hackers arent allowed to get machine time. The hacker doesnt get to advance their own skills and the computer system doesnt get wiz-bang software written for it. The computer system also wont get a core of experts available to answer questions and solve problems. My experience has been that I am not allowed on the computers where I go to school because I'm not in any CS classes. When you get in a class you are given an account that lasts as long as your class. Luckily for me, this site (not at all related to my school) was kind enough to grant me an account. Just recently I was able to do something in return by rewriting the network mail software giving it about a 4X speedup over the original code. This sort of thing happens everywhere when hackers are allowed machine access. On last point I'd like to make is that hacking on a PC is just not the same as doing it on a big machine. I started out hacking on micros (way back in the S-100 days when you had to be a hacker to use a micro) and have only been working on big system during the last three years. I find it much more fun to work on the big system. Aside from the extra power that you get, hacking a mini or mainframe also involves interaction with other hackers and users. Whether it be working together on a project, or just showing off your latest change to the operating system, there is social interaction you get when hacking a big system that you dont get working on a PC. I think this interaction is a very important part of the total hacker experience, and knowing that others will use and view your software tends to increase the quality. Nobody wants their name attached to garbage. -- John McNamee ..!decvax!philabs!sbcs!bnl!jpm jpm@Bnl.Arpa
krovetz@nlm-mcs.ARPA (Bob Krovetz) (11/21/84)
I first learned about computers in high school through a connection to the Dartmouth Time-Sharing System. It was an excellent system to learn on, and I have many fond memories of it. One of the things that impressed me was that every undergraduate was automatically given an account (I don't know if it was unrestricted though). Does anyone know if this is still the policy? Bob
betsy@dartvax.UUCP (Betsy Hanes Perry) (11/25/84)
> I first learned about computers in high school through a connection > to the Dartmouth Time-Sharing System. It was an excellent system to > learn on, and I have many fond memories of it. One of the things that > impressed me was that every undergraduate was automatically given an > account (I don't know if it was unrestricted though). Does anyone know > if this is still the policy? > > Bob I've been biting my tongue during this discussion; since the information's been asked for, I'll let loose. Yes, Dartmouth has a large Honeywell mainframe running a student-written and maintained operating system. It also has free access for all Dartmouth students,faculty, and staff. The two goals of systems experience and free access are by no means incompatible; we get around the problem of "when do you test software?" by having clearly defined experimental time in which new software is tested. There are more than 200 terminals on campus, all of which can connect to any of the computers on campus (that I know of); students who have Macintoshes (about 75%) can connect to our LANs from their rooms and get access to the mainframes. Everybody gets a substantial account on the Honeywell for free; if you show cause, you can also get access to various Vaxen, Primes, et cetera. (This message, obviously, comes from one such.) When I, an innocent pre-freshman, went touring campuses, I saw an interesting contrast in philosophy. At Dartmouth, I asked about computing access; I was given the same spiel I gave you. My tour leader capped it with how useful she'd found the computer in non-computing courses. At Yale, the tour guide said "It's really great! Only CS and Math majors get access to the computer, so we have enough spare time to do anything we want!" Betsy Perry Dartmouth '81 -- Elizabeth Hanes Perry UUCP: {decvax|linus|cornell}!dartvax!betsy CSNET: betsy@dartmouth ARPA: betsy%dartmouth@csnet-relay