brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) (12/10/84)
Most universities are not in the business of teaching programming, they are teaching computer science. Thus it's not expected that course work be about becoming a good programmer, although a few courses on such matters might not be a bad idea. This doesn't mean that becoming a good programmer is a bad idea at all, but simply that it's better learned outside the classroom by hacking. That's the reason why undergraduate extracurricular computing facilities are so important. While some may say they don't want to hire those hacks because they are unreliable, guess who's out there starting their own firms? Guys like Bill Gates and Peter Jennings were hacks. Steve Wozniak, and Bill Seiler. Bob Frankston & Dan Bricklin. Johann George. Even Mitch Kapor and many others. In fact just about all the really successful programs out got started by hacks. So let's not shut off the world's supply. -------------For the unitiatied Bill Gates - founder, Microsoft Peter Jennings - founder, VisiCorp Steve Wozniak - founder, Apple Bill Seiler - designer of the PET. Bob Frankston & Dan Bricklin - authors of VisiCalc Johann George - chief engineer, Tecmar Mitch Kapor - founder of Lotus (1-2-3) and I could go on naming forever.... -- Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. - Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473
neveu@lll-crg.ARPA (Charles Neveu) (12/12/84)
> While some may say they don't want to hire those hacks because they are > unreliable, guess who's out there starting their own firms? > > Guys like Bill Gates and Peter Jennings were hacks. Steve Wozniak, > and Bill Seiler. Bob Frankston & Dan Bricklin. Johann George. > Even Mitch Kapor and many others. In fact just about all the really > successful programs out got started by hacks. So let's not shut > off the world's supply. > > Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. - Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473 I think we have to define "hacker" before this discussion continues. Let's have some definitions of "hacker" posted and see if we are all talking about the same thing. Charles Neveu "I don't know much about science, but I know what I like."
sigma@usl.UUCP (Spyridon Triantafyllopoulos) (12/13/84)
In the article referenced above (too lazy to copy it) the author
mentions 6-7 people that got the MegaBucks.. What he did not mention
was that these (bright) people were a very small percentage of the
total hackerie. The average all-nighter would end up as a
subordinate doing nothing but install gimmics to existing programs
to make them more expensive (see most "integrated" packages...).
The morale: which is better, Moviechannel or PL/1 (no unix here...)
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos
Computer Science Department
University of Southwestern Louisiana
{ut-sally, akgua}!usl!sigmacoller@utah-cs.UUCP (Lee D. Coller) (12/13/84)
[]
Charles Neveau asks for a definition of a hacker. I've included two.
Hacker (definition used by the media) - A crook who gets his jollies from
stealing credit card numbers out of TRW, etc. This person should be
locked up.
Hacker (my definition) - A person who can sit down in front of a
terminal and "hack" code. This person often produces code that only
that person can understand. This person also likes to work nites and
prefers computers to people (:-).
Am I a hacker? No.
Would I hire a hacker? Probably not.
Lee Coller
coller@utah-cs.ARPA
{seismo, decvax, hplabs}!utah-cs!collerchenr@tilt.FUN (Ray Chen) (12/15/84)
> Hacker (definition used by the media) - A crook who gets his jollies from > stealing credit card numbers out of TRW, etc. This person should be > locked up. > Hacker (my definition) - A person who can sit down in front of a > terminal and "hack" code. This person often produces code that only > that person can understand. This person also likes to work nites and > prefers computers to people (:-). I use two definitions, depending on who is involved. Hacking: 1) the act of producing a good design/implementation that solves a problem in a clean and effective manner by primarily using already-understood concepts in possibly novel ways. 2) the act of producing code which is needlessly complex, difficult to understand, and not necessarily correct. Such code is often referred to as being "brain-damaged", "stupid", and/or "broken". Hacker - a person who hacks. Hack - a piece of code or algorithm produced by hacking. Ray Chen princeton!tilt!chenr
kaufman@yale.ARPA (Qux the Barbarian) (12/16/84)
In article <3147@utah-cs.UUCP> coller@utah-cs.UUCP (Lee D. Coller) gives
us two definitions of the word "hacker". I have a third:
Hacker - An undergraduate who, at the expense of his grades and especially
his sleep, spends the week after an "upgrade" to 4.2 BSD porting
all the local tools, and the month after that trying to bring
Berkeley's tools into some kind of useful state. This is done
without anything approaching support from the powers that be in
the Department.
Am I a hacker? Yes.
Would I hire one? Well, if he'll keep working without being paid, why
waste the money?
Do I have an axe to grind? Gee, I wasn't being too subtle there, was I?
Anyway, I don't think those who come after me will tear their hair out
at the non-portability of my code. They'll just wonder how I found the
time to pass my courses, with my name engraved on half the software on
the system....
Off to try and find some time,
Qux the Hacker
Kaufman@Yale.Arpa Kaufman@YaleCS.Bitnet ..!decvax!yale!kaufmanjona@clyde.UUCP (Jon Allingham) (12/17/84)
> .. > Hacking: > 1) the act of producing a good design/implementation that > solves a problem in a clean and effective manner by primarily using > already-understood concepts in possibly novel ways. I think we've all come to the conclusion that the term 'hacking' varies incredibly from region to region, but I have hardly ever heard someone use 'hacking' when referring to good, clean, structured etc ... code. -- Jon M. Allingham (201)386-3466 AT&T Bell Laboratories-WH "Beam me up Scotty, no intelligent life down here!"
chenr@tilt.FUN (Ray Chen) (12/19/84)
> > .. > > Hacking: > > > 1) the act of producing a good design/implementation that > > solves a problem in a clean and effective manner by primarily using > > already-understood concepts in possibly novel ways. > > I think we've all come to the conclusion that the term 'hacking' > varies incredibly from region to region, but I have hardly ever > heard someone use 'hacking' when referring to good, clean, structured > etc ... code. > > -- > Jon M. Allingham (201)386-3466 AT&T Bell Laboratories-WH > > "Beam me up Scotty, no intelligent life down here!" We're the "New Generation"... Ray Chen princeton!tilt!chenr P.S. -- We'll use hacking until somebody comes up with a better slang term.