grunwald@uiucdcsb.UUCP (12/13/84)
You mention that a lot of "really famous people" started out as hacks: Well,
admittedly, the people you mentioned in your list are famous in the micro-
computer world.
However, projects in that world do not often require the cooperation, depth
and knowledge that larger projects require. Could these people have assembled
something like the Arpanet? Designed a multi-processor machine for numerical
grid-equations? Design the INMOS-transputer or the INTEL-432?
I doubt it -- these projects require more knowlegde & experience than
hacking. This doesn't mean that hacking is bad, but it also means that not
hacking is not a terrible thing either. Learning to cooperate with others,
to base your designs and goals and formal theory --- these are the goals for
>computer science<.dmmartindale@watcgl.UUCP (Dave Martindale) (12/17/84)
In article <14700004@uiucdcsb.UUCP> grunwald@uiucdcsb.UUCP writes: > > You mention that a lot of "really famous people" started out as hacks: Well, >admittedly, the people you mentioned in your list are famous in the micro- >computer world. > > However, projects in that world do not often require the cooperation, depth >and knowledge that larger projects require. Could these people have assembled >something like the Arpanet? Designed a multi-processor machine for numerical >grid-equations? Design the INMOS-transputer or the INTEL-432? > > I doubt it -- these projects require more knowlegde & experience than >hacking. This doesn't mean that hacking is bad, but it also means that not >hacking is not a terrible thing either. Learning to cooperate with others, >to base your designs and goals and formal theory --- these are the goals for >>computer science<. How do you define "hacking"? To me, it just refers to spending much time on computing for one's own pleasure, rather than because you are paid or required to. Certainly, some people may waste this time. However, others may learn. I learned a great deal about some parts of >computer science< by hacking - simply because I could do things that were more substantial, interesting, and difficult than could have possibly been given as assignments in class. There are damned few students coming out of >computer science< schools who are capable of assembling the Arpanet, multi-processor machines, etc. on graduation. For someone who has the interest and talent to be a good computer scientist, hacking provides valuable experience that they aren't likely to get strictly within courses. For someone who is looking for an excuse to waste their time, hacking will provide that too. I think your argument is basically that hacking alone does not form a rounded computer scientist. I agree.
sean@ukma.UUCP (Sean Casey) (12/20/84)
You have to admit, hacking is more educational than The Dukes of Hazzard. Sean Casey Avid TV hater Except for Mash and Hill St. Blues.
neveu@lll-crg.ARPA (Charles Neveu) (12/21/84)
I originally posted a request for a definition of "hack[er,ing]" because I felt that we were arguing about several different things. The number and variety of definitions seem to corroborate my guess. Personally, I like the following: > How do you define "hacking"? To me, it just refers to spending much time > on computing for one's own pleasure, rather than because you are paid or > required to. Certainly, some people may waste this time. However, others > may learn. I think the term "hacker" is neither complementary or depreciatory; it is a colloquial term for "recreational programmer." Like "golfer" or "tennis player", it gives no indication of the skill level of the participant. As far as the other interpretations of "hacker", I think that someone who breaks into computer data-bases and steals data or corrupts their system is correctly called a "criminal", and one who writes needlessly complex, undocumented or bug-ridden code should correctly be referred to as a "jerk-off." Charles Neveu (not Neveau! or Robinson!) neveu@lll-crg