levitin@elmer.DEC (Sam HLO2-2/G13 DTN 225-4135) (11/25/85)
In my last batch of net.college mail, fraternities got pretty well roasted by people observing/flaming that fraternities promote conformity and believe that individual expression is second to social norms. I must take exception to what these MIT students say about frats. gerber@mit-amt writes: > >Every school has its conforming living groups, and its nonconforming living >groups.... At MIT, the fraternities, are, >in general, more conformist than some dorms. The coed frats are, as a >whole, less conformist than the single sex frats. There are many >local variations, but in general this is the case. mit-eddie!mit-vax!csdf writes > >Let's not forget the flip side of the coin. I don't think I've ever >heard of MIT (nerd heaven) referred to as a "Party" school. Most of us >have been know to go weeks at a time without partying (except in the >frats where social norms are more important tha personal expression >[flame intended]). Mr. Gerber, if fraternities are more conformist that some dorms, perhaps that happens because people *choose* to join a fraternity and the fraternity *chooses* to offer a student a place in their house; this choosing process tends, without effort to the contrary, to breed homogeneity, or else a few small cliques. People outside fraternities viewing them seem to see stereotypes: a frat is all-this or all-that. People inside fraternities see the tension, cliques, conflict, and non-conformity. Outside, the fraternity is a unit; inside, the fraternity is individuals, each exercising his own tastes. I lived in a fraternity at MIT for four years, and I occasionally went weeks at a time without partying; however, I also had all the social outlets I needed. My fraternity was large and *diverse* enough that there was always someone driving where I wanted to go, or a large enough crowd to go out with. An important point that I think the whole net.college discussion of fraternities has missed is that there is social life that doesn't revolve around ethyl alcohol (or around drugs in general). The fraternity is an ideal place to find other social activities besides drinking beer. In my four years, I enjoyed events such as sporting events (both as a participant on a frat team and as a spectator at Sox games), concerts, movies, dances, and so on. I also enjoyed parties every now and then. My fraternity might now have been typical, but there's more to the conformity issue and to the frat=party=beer view previously expressed. Sam Levitin Levitin%Aruba.DEC@decwrl (MIT '85) POTAK@MIT-REAGAN.ARPA Xi Chapter, Zeta Beta Tau Fraternity DEC Hudson-LSI 77 Reed Road, Hudson MA 01749 (617) 568-4135 {My opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my employer, my college....}
csdf@mit-vax.UUCP (Charles Forsythe) (11/26/85)
>Mr. Gerber, if fraternities are more conformist that some dorms, perhaps >that happens because people *choose* to join a fraternity and the fraternity >*chooses* to offer a student a place in their house; this choosing process >tends, without effort to the contrary, to breed homogeneity, or else a few >small cliques. I don't buy that for a picosecond. Not even a femto-second. Fraternities have, and always will, choose those they feel will "fit in". Only in a sitf-com or a movie would a frat rush director say,"Gee, we have too many athletic, social and good-looking brothers, let's pledge some pimply, wierd nerds!" >Outside, the fraternity is a unit; inside, the fraternity is >individuals, each exercising his own tastes. Nobody said that a frat WASN'T a group of individuals, but instead, Mr. Gerber and I claimed that fraternities have sort of a "Gaussian" social make-up and many MIT frats, such as "Number 6" have a particularly small "standard deviation". >My fraternity was large and *diverse* enough that there was always >someone driving where I wanted to go, or a large enough crowd to go out with. Not all of the fraternities are as large as ZBT. I think your point that "not all frat guys are beer-swilling jocks" is a very important one, but let's face it, non-conformity on an individual basis is not a major component of the fraternity ideal. -- -Charles
wbruvold@udenva.UUCP (wbruvold) (12/06/85)
In article <1208@mit-vax.UUCP>, csdf@mit-vax.UUCP (Charles Forsythe) claims:
-->>Mr. Gerber, if fraternities are more conformist that some dorms, perhaps
-->>that happens because people *choose* to join a fraternity and the fraternity
-->>*chooses* to offer a student a place in their house; this choosing process
-->>tends, without effort to the contrary, to breed homogeneity, or else a few
-->>small cliques.
-->
-->I don't buy that for a picosecond. Not even a femto-second. Fraternities
-->have, and always will, choose those they feel will "fit in". Only in a
-->sitf-com or a movie would a frat rush director say,"Gee, we have too many
-->athletic, social and good-looking brothers, let's pledge some pimply,
-->wierd nerds!"
-->
-->>Outside, the fraternity is a unit; inside, the fraternity is
-->>individuals, each exercising his own tastes.
-->
-->Nobody said that a frat WASN'T a group of individuals, but instead, Mr.
-->Gerber and I claimed that fraternities have sort of a "Gaussian" social
-->make-up and many MIT frats, such as "Number 6" have a particularly small
-->"standard deviation".
-->
-->>My fraternity was large and *diverse* enough that there was always
-->>someone driving where I wanted to go, or a large enough crowd to go out with.
-->I think your point that "not all frat guys are beer-swilling jocks" is a
-->very important one, but let's face it, non-conformity on an individual
-->basis is not a major component of the fraternity ideal.
-->
-->
-->--
Ok Time for My two cents. I am not a student at MIT an in fact have
only one remote friend that has gone there but I think it is a good
time to comment on a commenly held misperception about fraternities.
I have see both sides, as a so called "GDI" for my first two years
and as a Greek for my Last two. I agree with the above point that on
the whole fraternities look for a general "type" of person as in a
type that will fit well with the brothers in the house.
But this is a natural motivation when one is trying to select
members who will become friends and associated in the house.
Lets face it, opposites rarely get along well for along time.
HOWEVER, what fraternities on the average do not do is exclussively
look for people that are clones. Frankly looking at the greeks at DU,
UC Berkeley (where I grew up) and UCLA, the houses that have the best
reputation on campus for leadership, scholarship, and social are the
ones that look for people that will bring diversity to a fraternity.
I can tell you that at least our fraternity looks for this type
of trait when rushing someone. The question frankly hinges on
"what can this person offer to our house?" I think this is the
approach to take for if you view fraternities a faceless group and
not as a collective body of individuals I think you ignore some
very important facets of the greek system
W. Erik Bruvold
Delta Upsilon chapter of Phi Gamma Delta
wbruvold@undenva