gt@umich.UUCP (Gus Teschke) (01/10/86)
> The college was the University of Wisconsin at Madison. I'm not sure > of the entire story, but my old roommate (who now attends that school) > sent a postcard with a picture of the administration building lawn > covered with pink plastic flamingos. The caption on back read something > to the effect that every 97 years, flamingos mysteriously migrate to the > University of Wisconsin. ... > -- Mike Christodoulou The Rackham Student Government at the University of Michigan is the student government for the graduate students, excluding the law, business, and medical schools. Until the last year it was, I think, rather typical of student governments: nothing worthwhile happened there. No one on campus knew what it was. Well, a friend of mine got together a group of us, we asked some of our friends to vote for us, and poof! we were the majority. We aren't looking for debates, Robert's Rulers, or spending much time in meetings. We just wanted to use what little power RSG has to do worthwhile things. The group is admittedly small, about 10 people. So we have started a speaker series that is bringing speakers to campus with viewpoints that might not otherwise be heard. It's not a big series; so far it's been Paul Sweezy, a radical economist. Next semester it's Edward Said and David Levine. We also sent $1000.00 to Nicaragua for medical relief. I'm particularly proud of this action, though it wasn't my idea. I only wish we could do more. The UW Madison flamingoes were a fantastic idea, but we're too lazy to do that much real work. Though not nearly so grand, we seem to have caused a fairly big stir by passing a resolution banning the appearance any member of the Reagan Administration unless they appear as part of a debate. It was in honor of George Bush's appearance at a Peace Corps anniversary. BIG First Amendment confusion. I offer these examples to show that student government need not be caught up in petty political squabbles, and can actually DO something, although it's still the case that no one on campus knows what RSG is. It seems like you might be throwing away a perfectly good tool if you abolish your local student government. I would also like to trade ideas with other student governments. I think we got a good idea from Berkeley a while back; something about the Central America sanctuary movement. Other ideas? Gus Teschke ..!ihnp4!umich!itivax!gus
frear@ihnp1.UUCP (L. Frear) (01/10/86)
In article <389@umich.UUCP>, gt@umich.UUCP (Gus Teschke) writes: >.... Though not nearly so grand, we seem to have > caused a fairly big stir by passing a resolution banning the appearance > any member of the Reagan Administration unless they appear as part of a > debate. It was in honor of George Bush's appearance at a Peace Corps > anniversary. BIG First Amendment confusion. > > I offer these examples to show that student government need not be > caught up in petty political squabbles, and can actually DO something, > although it's still the case that no one on campus knows what RSG is. > It seems like you might be throwing away a perfectly good tool if > you abolish your local student government. In honor of George Bush's appearance, the student government at U of MI decided to shout through Mr. Bush's entire speech, so that no one could hear him. I don't know if they did, I would have been too embarrassed by such childish behaviour that I did not attend. It's sad to say that many student governments are an embarrassment not only to the faculty/ staff/regents/alums but also to their fellow students. -- Lori Frear ihnp4!ihnp3!frear GO BLUE!!!!!!! (or don't bother going at all)
gt@umich.UUCP (Gus Teschke) (01/19/86)
In <373@ihnp1.UUCP> frear@ihnp1.UUCP (Lori Frear) writes: ... >In honor of George Bush's appearance, the student government at U of MI >decided to shout through Mr. Bush's entire speech, so that no one could >hear him. I don't know if they did, I would have been too embarrassed >by such childish behaviour that I did not attend. It's sad to say that >many student governments are an embarrassment not only to the faculty/ >staff/regents/alums but also to their fellow students. Many people did shout through Bush's speech, and it was embarrassing. But not as embarrassing and sleazy as George Bush, who is not exactly known these days for his support of humanist causes, showing up to commemorate the birth of the Peace Corps. When's the next election? And don't blame the student governments (didn't you know there is more than one?) of UofM for it, for they never "decided to shout" as you claim. If you are referring to the primary student government, the Michigan Student Assembly, and its resolution against Bush's appearance (they thought it was inappropriate, 11 to 10), its members never decided to shout either. Where did you get your information? In truth the number of people unhappy with Bush's appearance was far beyond the membership of MSA. See the Detroit Free Press article of October 8, page 3, "5,000 BOO VICE PRESIDENT AT UofM". The Free Press printed a retraction the next day saying "not everyone was booing." The New York Times said "thousands." But in spite of significant protest, a lot of people did hear him. He brought the hugest PA system I've ever seen on campus outside of a concert or commencement. On TV, you could barely hear the chants of "USA CIA out of Nicaragua". And George can always call a press conference if he thinks he needs to repeat his views -- again. I think that if opposing viewpoints received some media access, the demonstration would not have happened. I don't know about you, but I'm disgusted by the way our government supports a government in El Salvador that fights against rebels by indiscriminately bombing rural areas. You know, El Salvador, where the "government" has failed to convict any of the death squad criminals responsible for about 40,000 deaths in the last six years. The Reagan/Bush government also happens to be funding terrorists on the borders of Nicaragua to destabilize a government that was elected in an election at least as fair as our own. Not to mention the incredibly wimpy and hypocritical stand taken on South Africa, etc. etc. So much for the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights. Isn't it more of an embarrassment for a student government to tacitly approve of such policies? Gus Teschke ..!ihnp4!umich!gt
cuccia@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU (Nick "Coosh" Cuccia) (01/21/86)
In article <373@ihnp1.UUCP> frear@ihnp1.UUCP (L. Frear) writes: >In honor of George Bush's appearance, the student government at U of MI >decided to shout through Mr. Bush's entire speech, so that no one could >hear him. I don't know if they did, I would have been too embarrassed >by such childish behaviour that I did not attend. It's sad to say that >many student governments are an embarrassment not only to the faculty/ >staff/regents/alums but also to their fellow students. > >-- > Lori Frear > ihnp4!ihnp3!frear Agreed. The same thing happened here at Cal in 83, when Jeane Kirkpatrick was heckled off stage by members of CISPES/SAICA (one of the local anti-US Central American policy groups..). This not only gave Berkeley a very bad reputation with regards to being a place to speak, but has clouded over the possibility in the forseeable future of any moderate/conservative speakers speaking on campus (Edward Teller of LLNL spoke here last year, but under very tight security and secrecy so tight that nobody in the class that he was speaking in knew he was speaking until lecture that day...). I hate the idea of freedom of speech belonging only to those with 'politically correct' ideas, whether the PC ideas are left or right of center. Heckling of speakers generally stinks, whether the speaker is Mondale at U$C, Kirkpatrick at Cal-Berkeley, or Bush at UMich. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ --Nick "Coosh" Cuccia --{...}!ucbvax!cuccia (USENET) --cuccia%ucbmiro@Berkeley (Arpanet) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The University wouldn't dare say some of the things that I say... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
kurtzman@uscvax.UUCP (Stephen Kurtzman) (01/21/86)
In article <11477@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> cuccia@ucbvax.UUCP (Nick "Coosh" Cuccia) writes: >In article <373@ihnp1.UUCP> frear@ihnp1.UUCP (L. Frear) writes: >>In honor of George Bush's appearance, the student government at U of MI >>decided to shout through Mr. Bush's entire speech, so that no one could >>hear him. [...] It's sad to say that >>many student governments are an embarrassment not only to the faculty/ >>staff/regents/alums but also to their fellow students. >> > >Agreed. The same thing happened here at Cal in 83, when Jeane >Kirkpatrick was heckled off stage by members of CISPES/SAICA (one of >the local anti-US Central American policy groups..). This not >only gave Berkeley a very bad reputation with regards to being >a place to speak, but has clouded over the possibility in the >forseeable future of any moderate/conservative speakers speaking >on campus. > >I hate the idea of freedom of speech belonging only to those with >'politically correct' ideas, whether the PC ideas are left or right >of center. Heckling of speakers generally stinks, whether the speaker >is Mondale at U$C, Kirkpatrick at Cal-Berkeley, or Bush at UMich. Lets not blame student governments for everything. The student governments usually reflect the society at large. At USC, Mondale was heckled by an off-campus republican organization with the assistance of a fraternity. It was shocking to see students at USC laughing about the disturbance (until the next day when the press informed them that it reflects bad on USC). It was even more shocking to see non-students (at work) laughing about it.
cs195@sdcsvax.UUCP (EECS 195) (01/26/86)
In article <398@umich.UUCP>, gt@umich.UUCP (Gus Teschke) writes: > In <373@ihnp1.UUCP> frear@ihnp1.UUCP (Lori Frear) writes: > > Many people did shout through Bush's speech, and it was embarrassing. > But not as embarrassing and sleazy as George Bush, who is not exactly known > these days for his support of humanist causes, showing up to commemorate > the birth of the Peace Corps. When's the next election? ... > I don't know about you, but I'm disgusted by the way our government supports a > government in El Salvador that fights against rebels by indiscriminately > bombing rural areas. You know, El Salvador, where the "government" has > failed to convict any of the death squad criminals responsible for > about 40,000 deaths in the last six years. The Reagan/Bush government also > happens to be funding terrorists on the borders of Nicaragua to > destabilize a government that was elected in an election at least as fair > as our own. Not to mention the incredibly wimpy and hypocritical stand > taken on South Africa, etc. etc. So much for the principles of the > Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights. ... You liberals make me laugh! All you you talk about are the supposed evils of the Reagan/Bush and El Salvador. This Ad- ministration has done more good for this country than any in the past two decades, and I don't think it has been at the expense of your "human values" either. Your general atti- tude in the above article implies a significant misunder- standing on your part. I try hard to keep an "open mind", but have problems with such "cry-baby" thinking. I am relieved that I chose a University with a right-wing majority (in fact we are proud of having very few liberals here), but we certainly let our liberal brothers hold their demonstrations, have speakers, etc. with out wasting our time on pointless heckling and harrassment. I'm certain Mr. Bush is a god, and the next president of these tremendously supreme United States of America. -- Roger Bly Jr. University of Calif. at San Diego home of the "California Review"
coleman@sdcsvax.UUCP (Don Coleman) (01/27/86)
In article <1347@sdcsvax.UUCP> cs195@sdcsvax.UUCP (EECS 195) writes: > You liberals make me laugh! All you talk about are the <general conservative ravings deleted for brevities sake> You conservatives do *not* make me laugh. Indeed, I find you rather frightening in your inhumanity. I cannot justify our unqualified support of a government simply because it caters to just one of our 'ideals'. If a government wants our support, it should have to convince us that it is making steady progress on a whole range of issues. We should use our influence as a positive force. Just because a country is our ally, doesn't mean we can't admit they are bad, and take steps to move them in better directions. The United State of America is one of the best governments on this planet, but this doesn't mean I'm willing to forgo critizing and attempting to change it. It is not as good as it could be. > such "cry-baby" thinking. I am relieved that I chose a > University with a right-wing majority (in fact we are proud > of having very few liberals here), but we certainly let our He does not speak for the majority of this campus. I believe that he is wrong on the percentages of the right-wing verses the others. We have a vocal and fairly literate right-wing *minority* on this campus. I'm not sure if Mr Bly fits this description entirely(sorry, but I just couldn't help myself, my apologies to Mr Bly). > liberal brothers hold their demonstrations, have speakers, > etc. with out wasting our time on pointless heckling and > harrassment. I think he is generally right here. don coleman@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu | ucbvax!sdcsvax!coleman
cs195@sdcsvax.UUCP (EECS 195) (01/28/86)
In article <1353@sdcsvax.UUCP>, coleman@sdcsvax.UUCP (Don Coleman) writes: > making steady progress on a whole range of issues. We should use our > influence as a positive force. Just because a country is our ally, doesn't > > > He does not speak for the majority of this campus. I believe that he > is wrong on the percentages of the right-wing verses the others. We > have a vocal and fairly literate right-wing *minority* on this campus. > I'm not sure if Mr Bly fits this description entirely(sorry, but I just > couldn't help myself, my apologies to Mr Bly). I never said I spoke for any on other than myself. Survays done on campus indicate UCSD has a concervative majority (I don't have the numbers handy, but it was somthing like 25% liberal.) Perhaps it was not a good sample, but this is the feeling I get around campus (I have several liberal friends). -Roger Bly
kayvan@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU (Kayvan Aghaiepour) (01/28/86)
> > You liberals make me laugh! All you you talk about are the > supposed evils of the Reagan/Bush and El Salvador. This Ad- > ministration has done more good for this country than any in > the past two decades, and I don't think it has been at the > expense of your "human values" either. Your general atti- > tude in the above article implies a significant misunder- > standing on your part. > Oh, boy. I don't think I should start in on this, seeing the sort of person I'm up against, but I sure will try to present a rational point of view. Firstly, I want to know what these supposed misunderstandings were? Reagan's administration is certainly supporting death squads in El Salvador, and Contras in Nicaragua. The human values that are being violated in each case are those that I hope (though I certainly don't expect) you share. Is it not obvious to you, when many thousands of people are "disappeared" in El Salvador, that this is wrong? Of course not. How about when Reagan's "Freedom Fighters" attack entire villages of women and children? Of course the women and children were supporters of the evil Marxist regime of Nicaragua, so they deserved to die, right?? > I try hard to keep an "open mind", but have problems with > such "cry-baby" thinking. I am relieved that I chose a > University with a right-wing majority (in fact we are proud > of having very few liberals here), but we certainly let our > liberal brothers hold their demonstrations, have speakers, > etc. with out wasting our time on pointless heckling and > harrassment. If you made the smallest attempt at keeping an open mind you would not be praising the actions of the present administration. The same "cry-baby" thinking is what stopped the Viet Nam war. I suppose, though, that in your mind, that too was a mistake. America should have gone on bombing civilian villages, sending off her own children to die, and gone on waging the senseless war. We liberals might make you laugh, but you just plain make me sick. Your warped logic and your self righteous attitude are what weakens this country, not liberal thinking. > > I'm certain Mr. Bush is a god, and the next president of > these tremendously supreme United States of America. > > -- Roger Bly Jr. > University of Calif. at San Diego > home of the "California Review" Well, Roger, more power to you. You can go on worshipping Mr. Bush and Mr. Reagan. You can go on parroting the administration's propaganda. You can go on believing that your way is the only right way and your way of life is the only "free" life. I, on the other hand, will do my own thinking. I don't worship any man as a god, although there are a few whose deeds I admire. I will not be swept by the blinding patriotism which seems to afflict you. These "tremendously supreme United States" suffer most from the closed minded attitude portrayed in your message. ---Kayvan Kayvan Aghaiepour at Berkeley home of "The People's World" P.S. I hope your posting was a joke. If so, it was in extremely bad taste.
abh6509@ritcv.UUCP (A. Hudson) (01/31/86)
>I never said I spoke for any on other than myself. Survays done on campus >indicate UCSD has a concervative majority (I don't have the numbers handy, but >it was somthing like 25% liberal.) Perhaps it was not a good sample, but this >is the feeling I get around campus (I have several liberal friends). > > -Roger Bly A lot of so-called conservative schools have percentages like: 25% conservative, 25% liberal, 50% pathetically apathethic. Several hard-line conservative groups (read Truth in Academia) like to hype things a little out of proportion and claim rather disproportionate numbers. That's not to say that there aren't a lot of conservative campuses, that's just to say that the TRUE numbers don't lie. R.I.T has an active Nuclear Awareness group which is pretty visible, but this doesn't quite offset the large numbers of conservative/apathetic techies. And the president of the college is an ex-marine. A. Hudson (I have several apathetic friends)
gt@umich.UUCP (Gus Teschke) (02/01/86)
In <1347@sdcsvax.UUCP>, cs195@sdcsvax.UUCP (Roger Bly) writes: >You liberals make me laugh! A great start: try to dismiss my posting as obsolete liberalism. Sorry, I'm not a liberal. >All you you talk about are the supposed evils of the Reagan/Bush and >El Salvador. First, you can't dismiss as "supposed evils" these acts of Reagan/Bush: - organizing and funding terrorists in Nicaragua - support of a government that rules by death squad and bombing, i.e. El Salvador - mining Nicaragua's harbors - supporting dictators (Philipines, Chile, etc.) as long as they favor US policy - withdrawing from the World Court, and thus from rule of law, rather than lose a case to Nicaragua over Nicaragua's right be free of U.S. govermnment financed attacks. - etc. Apparently you don't think they are real or even if real, that they aren't worth anyone's concern? Many reliable sources have documented these criminal policies. But no one can force you to acknowledge them. Second, you hint at other topics that I am ignoring, and attempt to dismiss my points by portraying me as a crank who only wants to tear down the U.S. government. Not so. I'm a citizen of the U.S., and have a say (somewhat small) in what the currently elected government does. I have no say in Poland's, Uganda's, or South Africa's affairs. I think the principles the U.S. was founded on are worth strengthening, and really need it just now. So MY government had better behave, or I'll express my opposition. I'll use my influence in student government (this IS net.college) to advance basic U.S. principles like the right to self-determination. >This Administration has done more good for this country than any in >the past two decades, and I don't think it has been at the >expense of your "human values" either. Your general atti- >tude in the above article implies a significant misunder- >standing on your part. Where is the significant misunderstanding? What do you call driving the national debt to over $2 trillion, routine deficts of $200 million, "heroically" stomping on Grenada, and ignoring the principles in the Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights? Good for the country? >I try hard to keep an "open mind", but have problems with >such "cry-baby" thinking. So now you say I think like a cry-baby. Were you ever on a debate team? I'm glad you put "open mind" in quotes. How is addressing important issues cry-baby? >I am relieved that I chose a University with a right-wing majority >(in fact we are proud of having very few liberals here), but we >certainly let our liberal brothers hold their demonstrations, have >speakers, etc. with out wasting our time on pointless heckling and >harrassment. What do you call your response if not pointless heckling and harassment? What do I care if you are a trendy neo-conservative who has Yet Another Review wasting paper? If it's anything like the Michigan Review, it's just more name-calling, confusion, and pettiness. Perhaps your ideas can only survive in an atmosphere of uniform, uncritical acceptance. Part of a university's role in society is to criticize that society and its government, an open forum. Student government can, and I think, should participate in this. I think that attempting to shout down a Vice-President can be justified. But this posting is already too long. >I'm certain Mr. Bush is a god, and the next president of >these tremendously supreme United States of America. > Roger Bly > University of Calif. at San Diego > home of the "California Review" This is parody, right? 1930's Germany? Or just pointless harassment? Where's the CONTENT, Bly? Gus Teschke U of Michigan ..!ihnp4!umich!gt