yrdbrd@bmcg.UUCP (Larry J. Huntley) (05/10/85)
My two sons, aged 7 and 4, have recently been diagnosed as being
very allergic individuals and I will be taking them to a pediatric
allergist. I myself was proclaimed a "highly allergic subject"
when I was 15 and spent the subsequent 11 years under the care of
an allergist. I finally discontinued the allergist's prescribed
treatment plan when I decided that I couldn't detect any difference
in the way I felt or reacted to the supposed allergens whether I
was using the hyposensitization solutions or not.
Now, before I embark fully on subjecting my boys to the same sort
of rituals I went through, I am soliciting opinions of you folks
on the net. I am aware that the treatment plan is likely to have
changed in the 20 years since I started all this, so if anyone has
a recent experience along these lines, I'd like to hear about it.
Fundamental Questions:
1. Is anyone familiar with an example of an allergic person who has
used hyposensitization therapy and has actually improved? Do you
know anyone who has been told (by their allergist) "Well, I guess
we can stop with the injections now"?
2. Is the long-term usage of antihistamine preparations known to be
free of unwanted side-effects or is there some nastiness here I
should be aware of?
3. Have the methods of allergy testing advanced any? What is the
current state of the science? My testing took about three
weeks, involved some 180 varied Witches' brews and philters which
were injected subcutaneously into my inner forearm, 10 to 20 at a
time. The nurses would then return after 20 minutes or so to
measure the diameter of the red welt rising around the injection
site. If it was larger than a half-dollar but smaller than a dinner
plate :-), I would be rewarded with some sort of oral medication
and requested to "hang around a while longer; we'd like the Doctor to
see that." (I suspect they had some sort of agreement with the nurses
in the office of the urologist down the hall.) I know other people
who have had the "back scratch" type of testing. Are things any better
these days?
I hate to sound negative about the whole affair, but my personal experience
with the system was less than marvelous. I do want the boys to have a
chance to feel good, though; they seem to have so much trouble with congestion,
coughing, sneezing, <insert classic allergic reaction symptom here>, etc.
Your experiences and opinions are welcome.
Thanks a lot,
'brd
--
Larry J. Huntley Burroughs -(B)- Corporation
Advanced Systems Group MS-703
10850 Via Frontera San Diego, CA 92128
(619) 485-4544
-*- Non Circum Copulae -*- mark@cbosgd.UUCP (Mark Horton) (05/13/85)
In article <1668@bmcg.UUCP> yrdbrd@bmcg.UUCP (Larry J. Huntley) writes: >1. Is anyone familiar with an example of an allergic person who has > used hyposensitization therapy and has actually improved? Do you > know anyone who has been told (by their allergist) "Well, I guess > we can stop with the injections now"? Yes, me. (Sort of.) I'm one of these people that's allergic to everything too. I've been on the weekly shots for nearly 4 years now. Hay fever (outdoor pollen, etc) doesn't bother me as much as they used to. On the other hand, I'm also allergic to animals, dust, and molds, and they can'd do a thing for me there. (They advise me to avoid things I'm allergic to.) I do seem to be a long way from ever finishing, although it was supposed to take about 3 years. Every time I have a reaction to a shot, they drop me back a step. When I last asked them how much longer I had to go, they apparently took pity on me and pronounced that I only had to come in every 2 weeks for a shot instead of every week. If you want to be a doctor, be an allergist. Your patients never die, and they never get well. >2. Is the long-term usage of antihistamine preparations known to be > free of unwanted side-effects or is there some nastiness here I > should be aware of? I've taken an antihistimine every night before I go to bed for 8 years, with no long term effects. It does make me sleepy, which is why I take it at that time. I am not addicted, nor do I depend on it to get to sleep (I stopped it for 2 weeks once to make sure.) >3. Have the methods of allergy testing advanced any? What is the > current state of the science? Not much. 4 years ago they did skin tests on me, and my allergist still does only skin tests. My back lit up so much that they dragged me out to show the nurses. There is a new blood test out that some doctors use. I think they just take a blood sample and send it to the lab, which runs N tests on it and sends back a list of things you react to. I have not had it. What really tees me of is that I am pretty sure I am allergic to sulfites. (Those are the things they put on salad bars to keep them looking fresh when they are really rotting away. 60 minutes did a story on them about 3 or 4 years ago.) I have yet to be able to confirm or disprove this with a test. My allergist keeps telling me how such newfangled things don't show up in the office practice world for a few years. My GP offers the blood test, but it doesn't check for sulfites either. Mark
oliver@unc.UUCP (Bill Oliver) (05/13/85)
In article <bmcg.1668> yrdbrd@bmcg.UUCP (Larry J. Huntley) writes: >Fundamental Questions: > >1. Is anyone familiar with an example of an allergic person who has > used hyposensitization therapy and has actually improved? Do you > know anyone who has been told (by their allergist) "Well, I guess > we can stop with the injections now"? > >2. Is the long-term usage of antihistamine preparations known to be > free of unwanted side-effects or is there some nastiness here I > should be aware of? > >3. Have the methods of allergy testing advanced any? What is the > current state of the science? My testing took about three > weeks, involved some 180 varied Witches' brews and philters which > were injected subcutaneously into my inner forearm, 10 to 20 at a > time. The nurses would then return after 20 minutes or so to > measure the diameter of the red welt rising around the injection > site. If it was larger than a half-dollar but smaller than a dinner > plate :-), I would be rewarded with some sort of oral medication > and requested to "hang around a while longer; we'd like the Doctor to > see that." (I suspect they had some sort of agreement with the nurses > in the office of the urologist down the hall.) I know other people > who have had the "back scratch" type of testing. Are things any better > these days? My two cents: When I was a small child, I also had terrible problems with allergies, including asthma, watering eyes, pruritis, stuffy nose, etc. At about the age of 13 or 14, I went to an allergist and had the scratch test performed. The test was positive for a number of plant products, and I was begun on a desensitization protocol. It was like night and day for me. By the next season, I suffered from mild stuffiness, but had no problems with asthma or any other severe symptoms. The year following found me romping about in the open as I had never been able to do before in my life. Since I had spent the previous years of my life essentially indoors during all non-winter days, it was a dramatic change in lifestyle. I continued receiving monthly injections until I left home for college (about four years of continuous therapy). Over the next two years, my symptoms slowly returned, though never to their full force. I started up therapy again, and the symptoms promptly resolved. I discontinued therapy again when I moved to begin med school. I have had no problems in the past six years. Thus, I am sold on the therapy. I would have thought I had just grown out of my allergies (and indeed, I think my continued lack of symptoms is in part due to this) had it not been for the dramatic improvement and subsequent return of symptoms the first time I quit therapy, followed by another dramatic improvement when therapy was started again. Desensitization frequently does not work, and I am not surprised by your lack of response. Generally, desensitization works best for seasonal antigens such as my plant allergies, but doesn't work all that well for stuff like dust, mold, animals and such. The scratch test is still the way to test for sensitvity. Therapy generally is expectd to last for life. I am an exception in in this. Don't count on being able to have your kids stop, though they may be able to after a while. Tolerance for therapy is very variable, with reactions ranging from sniffles (not uncommon) to flu-like symptoms to full fledged allergic shock (very rare). The shock is easily treated and occurs soon after receiving the therapy. Thus, it is not too much of a drawback if the patient will hang around for the requisite thirty minutes or so after the injection. The use of antihistamines is not without side effects. The most common is of course drowsiness, but other side effects include tremors, nervousness, insomnia, nausea and vomiting, and rarely, problems with blood cell counts. Reactions to antihistamines are very individual, and if you choose to have your child treated in this manner don't worry if the first drug or two doesn't work just right. Many times the side effects disappear, and frequently one can just keep trying different antihistamines until a satisfactory compromise bewteen efficacy and side effect is reached. I don't know of any long term sequelae of occasional antihistamine use. Your allergist would. I am a pathologist and am thus speaking a little out of my specialty. Please take this as the experience of a satisfied customer and not professional medical advice. Go to an allergist and let him tell you the options. Tinkering with the immune system, even with over the counter drugs, is fairly non-trivial. That's why it's a separate specialty. Good Luck and God Bless, Bill Oliver.
mcburnet@topaz.ARPA (Roe McBurnett mcburnet@topaz.uucp) (05/13/85)
In article <1668@bmcg.UUCP> yrdbrd@bmcg.UUCP (Larry J. Huntley) writes: >My two sons, aged 7 and 4, have recently been diagnosed as being >very allergic individuals and I will be taking them to a pediatric >allergist. >Fundamental Questions: >1. Is anyone familiar with an example of an allergic person who has > used hyposensitization therapy and has actually improved? Do you > know anyone who has been told (by their allergist) "Well, I guess > we can stop with the injections now"? Yes. My wife has been through hyposensitization, improved, and was advised to stop injections for a period of time. When her situation again became more serious she started up again, and later stopped. The second period was for about 5 years. >2. Is the long-term usage of antihistamine preparations known to be > free of unwanted side-effects or is there some nastiness here I > should be aware of? you become immune to the affects of sleeping pills and the like... both medications are based on the same type of formulation. >3. Have the methods of allergy testing advanced any? What is the > current state of the science? My testing took about three > weeks, involved some 180...[injections]... Are things any better > these days? for children only the high risk/suspect tests are run.. my son (age 4) was sent to an allergy specialest who only administered 4 intradermal tests. (intradermal is an injection under the skin) He determined that my boy was not allergic and had another problem. I was also tested at one point and over a period of 2 weeks was subjected to "scratch tests" where a series of thin scratchs were made on my arms. As in Larry's experience, a range of allergins were applied to the scratches and observed for welts. (they *DO* itch rather badly) But this was a full screening test to find what I was allergic to. >I hate to sound negative about the whole affair, but my personal experience >with the system was less than marvelous. I do want the boys to have a >chance to feel good, though; they seem to have so much trouble with congestion >coughing, sneezing, <insert classic allergic reaction symptom here>, etc. >Your experiences and opinions are welcome. >Larry J. Huntley Burroughs -(B)- Corporation for those with severe allergy problems I would say that going through the skin tests and the hyposensitization therapy is worth while. It does work and over a period of months/years the allergy symptoms do get better. -- Roe McBurnett {ut-sally,astrovax}!topaz!mcburnet or Hill 521 x4273 \-> !ru-green!mcburnett
jam@ho95b.UUCP (Joe Malecki) (05/13/85)
I am a "highly allergic individual," and the weekly injections I've been
getting for about 2 years have improved my life greatly.
First off, I never went through the medieval skin tests. There is a much
more modern alternative, but most allergists (who get their business soley
from allergies) scorn it for economic (THEIR economics!) reasons.
The blood test I have undergone is called RAST -- Radio Allergo Sorbent
Test. It's pretty fancy. I don't have the literature in from of me, but to
"the best of my recollection":
A blood sample is taken, and mixed with a specific allergen (for
example, cat dander). I believe it's actually the allegen in the
substance itself that is added, so that they don't actually shake a
cat over a testtube, they add the already-isolated substance to your
blood.
They let your blood react (or not react) with the allergen, and then
add a radioactive chemical that binds to the allergen-antigen complex
that has formed in your blood. The more allergic you are to the
allergen, the more antigen combines with it, and the more the
radioactive chemical binds to it all.
Then they put your blood on filter paper or something, and wash it.
The heavier 3-way complex of allergen-antigen-radioactive tracer
stays behind, and they then use a geiger counter to measure how much
radioactivity is left. You can see that the severity of your allergy
is proportional to the radioactivity of the test products.
The above procedure is repeated for all the allergens being tested.
The claim is that the results of the RAST are repeatable, while the results
of skin test are eminently non-repeatable - each time the skin tests are
done, different results almost always occur.
As I've said, I've been taking shots (2 per week) for some time, and they
have helped greatly. For the first time in my life, I've had both nostrils
clear and unclogged, the headaches almost never recur, and I'm not so
bone-dragging tired all the time.
Now for the economics:
I get my serum from an ENT (Ear Nose Throat Doctor) Allergist, not a
plain Allergist. I had a long discussion with my doctor, and he said the
reason why the RAST has undergone attacks is strictly economics. An
allergist gets all his/her money from allergy testing and giving shots.
The blood test is very efficient, requiring only two tubes of blood - NO
returning dozens of time for all the scratches on the back or arms.
ENT Allergist get all the business they need from their ENT practice and the
surgery they do (surgery is where the profits are). They allergy stuff is
only to help the patients.
I believe this guy because I went to him with nasal polyps caused by my severe
allergies. He said I would need surgery to remove them, because they almost
completely occluded my nasal passages. But he refused to perform the surgery
until I got my allergies taken care of. Otherwise the polyps would grow back
again and again. He wanted no part in operating to treat only the symptoms,
and not the problem of my allergies.
Sorry for being so long-winded, but I've been feeling so great because of the
shots (I stopped them for about 6 months, and became miserable again), that
I'd like to help anybody else understand the options available to them.
You're welcome to call me if you have any questions about the tests.
--
Joe Malecki
AT&T Bell Laboratories
Room 4K-223
Holmdel, NJ 07733
(201) 949-4847
{allegra, cbosgd, ihnp4}!ho95b!jampeg@linus.UUCP (Margaret E. Craft) (05/13/85)
The shots helped me feel good the same way that glasses helped me see. I'll never forget the day I got my glasses - my kid sister got hers too, and all the way home we were saying things like "Hey look - there's wires between those poles!!" It was the same with the shots, after about 3 months. "What - I can play in the field without sneezing for the next 4 hours??!!" The testing isn't so bad now. I was just retested a month ago. 20 or so small scratches on upper arms, followed by mini-injections on forearms for the ones that reacted. The shots, as you know, are so painless that when I get a REAL shot I'm very offended! Many allergists try other treatments before shots. Worth a try. Summary - get them some treatment. But be aware that it's still a lot of black magic, and if the treatment (shots or pills or nasal spray) doesn't work, try someone else. A good allergist will admit that different treatments work for different people.
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (05/13/85)
After living for years suffering almost continuously from allergic problems as a kid, I made the first trip to the allergist in about 7th grade. I am allergic to Trees, Grass, Mold, Dust, and Ragweed. Trees are my big killer are marginal (mowing the lawn bothered me but it wasn't that uncomfortable). I continued the shots about once every three weeks after the initial work-up and weekly during the time that trees and grasses were pollenating. Prices were about $5. an injection at the time. I discontinued the treatment when I went off to college. > > Fundamental Questions: > > 1. Is anyone familiar with an example of an allergic person who has > used hyposensitization therapy and has actually improved? Do you > know anyone who has been told (by their allergist) "Well, I guess > we can stop with the injections now"? Does this ever happen? I suppose I may be a little better off, although I don't spend as much time outdoors as I used to. I still get mild problems during the right seasons, but nothing that makes me want to go back to the injections again. I don't get the miserable, runny eyes allergic problems I used to. > 2. Is the long-term usage of antihistamine preparations known to be > free of unwanted side-effects or is there some nastiness here I > should be aware of? I've not found a whole lot of antihistimines that I can live with taking. Actifed and Chlortrinitron zonk me out dead. The prescription Naldecon is better, but still not great. I use Sudafed when I have too, it's a pretty good dryer upper, and doesn't incapacitate me too badly. > 3. Have the methods of allergy testing advanced any? What is the > current state of the science? My testing took about three > weeks, involved some 180 varied Witches' brews and philters which > were injected subcutaneously into my inner forearm, 10 to 20 at a > time. I had the pock marked back treatment for the initial testing. After they had it narrowed down they did the same thing to my arm (since it was only a dozen or so). Someone mentioned that they have some new testing method that they use to do the initial testing that narrows it down for the traditional tests. -Ron
mike@dolqci.UUCP (Mike Stalnaker) (05/14/85)
From the time I was 4 until I was 14, I recieved allergy shots. This
started at the rate of 3 a week, and was tapered off to one a week by
the time I was 7, and then at 13 they began tapering them off even
futher. At the outset I was allergic to all mammalian fur, (gawd, I can
still remember mom trying to explain why I couldn't have a
dog/cat/goat/horse/whatever...), most dusts, and had hay fever like you
wouldn't believe. The shots cleared it up, and I haven't had a bit of
trouble since.....
(I'm 25 now.)
--
Mike Stalnaker UUCP:{decvax!decuac,cbosgd,seismo}!dolqci!mike
AT&T:202-376-2593
USPS:601 D. St. NW, Room 7122, Washington, DC, 20213
"Never appeal to a man's better nature. He may not
have one. Appeal to his better interests instead"
--Lazarus Longhollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) (05/14/85)
In article <1668@bmcg.UUCP> yrdbrd@bmcg.UUCP (Larry J. Huntley) writes: > >2. Is the long-term usage of antihistamine preparations known to be > free of unwanted side-effects or is there some nastiness here I > should be aware of? I used to have to take anti-histamines and decongestants pretty regularly, but now only need them for colds and flu. My experience has been that a given type of antihistamine will loose its effectiveness for me after having been relied on for a period of time. I've had this effect from both over-the-counter and prescription drugs. Eventually they just stop working and I have to find another one. Once they stop, they never work for me again. Be aware that some over-the-counter drugs contain a lot of junk besides antihistamines. Contac, for example, contains belladonna. At least two doctors told me not to use it even before I told them it gave me the shakes. >3. Have the methods of allergy testing advanced any? What is the > current state of the science? > I know other people > who have had the "back scratch" type of testing. Are things any better > these days? A friend went to an allergist who did what she called "sublingual" testing. As I understand it, this involves spraying a solution containing an allergen under the patient's tongue and watching for a reaction. My friend was determined to be allergic to wheat when she very nearly fell asleep on the spot after they sprayed that solution. -- -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe) Citicorp TTI 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. Santa Monica, CA 90405 (213) 450-9111, ext. 2483 {philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (05/15/85)
> Be aware that some over-the-counter drugs contain a lot of junk besides > antihistamines. Contac, for example, contains belladonna. At least two > doctors told me not to use it even before I told them it gave me the > shakes. > And others like Dristan have Caffeine in them. This is really wonderful. It puts you in zombie mode since the antihistamine is doping you up and the caffeine is stimulating you. Can't say awake and can't sleep either. -Ron
werner@aecom.UUCP (Craig Werner) (05/16/85)
Some facts on allergies from a future immunologists: Allergies are caused by an improper immune reaction by the body. The official term for it is Type I (immediate) hypersensitivity. The are several types of Antibodies in the blood. IgG is the most common, IgA is found in mucus, and IgE is responsible for Allergies. IgE binds to cells in the skin and other places called Mast Cells. When an allergen (anything that causes Allergy) comes in contact with the IgE on the mast cells, it causes the Mast Cells to degranulate. Degranulating Mast Cells release Histamine, Serotonin, Slow Reacting Substance of Anaphylaxis. These cause blood vessels to dilate and tissues to swell and various other effects. If local, it causes a rash. If it gets into the blood in a big way, Anaphylactic shock, which is pretty nasty, can occur (such as a person dying from a bee sting.) To test for allergies, there are new alternatives to simple scratch tests. One - the RAST test looks for Antigen-reactive IgE in the blood. (However, just because you have IgE that binds to Ragweed doesn't mean you'll be allergic to it. On the other hand, you can't be allergic to it if you're IgE doesn't bind it. So it's a quick easy way to rule out a lot of things.) Then there is hyposensitization. This works as follows. IgG and IgA can also bind allergens, and if they do, don't cause the allergy response. However, most people don't make enough of these two during allergies, so the IgE predominates. If you can induce a response, then the competition between the various antibodies will prevent the allergy. This doesn't work for all antigens. SOme don't respond. For these, a person could be given anti-Allergen antibodies in lieu of making them herself, however this passive protection only lasts weeks, not years, and there may be a transfusion reaction. Incidentally, there is a condition known as Atopy, which is a genetic predisposition to make a lot of IgE. Although the actual allergy is not inherited, the disposition to be allergic to SOMETHING is. Hope that's good enough explanation of the situation. -- Craig Werner !philabs!aecom!werner What do you expect? Watermelons are out of season!
doug@terak.UUCP (Doug Pardee) (05/16/85)
> Contac, for example, contains belladonna.
Wrong. Check the label. Contac dropped the belladonna formulation
many years ago (remember the "New, Improved Formula"?). These days,
they're straight allergy tablets.
The belladonna formulation is still available in some "house brand"
cold capsules, such as from Lucky supermarkets and SuperX drugstores.
Again, read the labels.
I find that I need the extra "drying power" of belladonna about once
a year. No noticeable side effects for me except if I take one before
bedtime, then I have some *very* strange dreams :-)
--
Doug Pardee -- Terak Corp. -- !{ihnp4,seismo,decvax}!noao!terak!doug
^^^^^--- soon to be CalCompmer@prism.UUCP (05/17/85)
I think getting shots helped me, but I found that when I first started
getting shots some of my symptoms got worse. Unfortunately, the doctor
didn't warn me of this, and so it was never dealt with. Eventually,
however, my symptoms did abate and they have remained tolerable for the 8
years or so since I stopped getting the shots. I am even living with a cat!
meredith
aka
{cca, wjh12, mit-eddie} !mirror!prism!merpalith@princeton.UUCP (Palith Balakrishnabati GUEST) (05/17/85)
When I was very very small, I had many many bad allergies, as did many of my good friends. The wisest men of our village had no cures of any goodness. Oh how we would try to make ourselves better! Then my mother said "I know a very good doctor to help you, Palith." For the next two years every three times a week I visited the doctor in Kanpur until the allergies did flee from my body. Oh how my feet blistered on my way to the doctor! But those were happy times. Things changed in my whole life. I became a man. I was no longer a boy. My mother said to me: "Palith, you have become a grown man. I am so very proud." But since then my mother has died, my allergies have gone, and I have stopped seeing the psychiatrist. I no longer have blisters since I do not visit the doctor any longer, but I do get pains in my feet that force me to wear shoes with very very thick soles, and drive a Camaro. Thanking you, Palith "Jethero" Balakrishnabati -- Long Live Net.Nlang.India!