tjs@cbdkc1.UUCP ( Tom Stanions) (05/03/85)
<<<<<>>>>> Artical repeated for the benifit of net.med readers... In article <315@link.UUCP> aaa@link.UUCP (Wale Akinpelu) writes: >Before colonization started in African countries, there >were native people (called traditional doctors) who heal >sick people. Unfortunately, most of these techniques were >lost during the colonial period. Now, there is a strong >attempt in most African Universities to see if they >recover the lost knowledge. So far the attempt has been >quite succesful. I should say here that, I am not >advocating that we should ignore the current Western >approach of medicine. The point I like us to share >is, Can we learn anything from the ways African >Doctors treat sick people? For example, it has proved >that the reason why african people have less dental >people is because they eat more calcium food and because >they use a combination of chewing stick and brush to >clean their mouth. As a matter of fact, my dentist ask >me to bring a couple of chewing stick when next I visit >any African country. Is this theory true? > > >African method of treatment depends heavily on herbs. >However, there are no dosage and no proper documentation >to pass knowledge to the younger generation. Does anybody >have any knowledge on how to pass these knowledge to >the western countries without any distortion? > >Wale Akinpelu >{allegra!ihnp4,hou2a}!link!aaa I was very pleased to see a subject near and dear to me show up this early in a news group. There is certainly much to be gained by studying any form of natural medicine. Some of us have been contributing to net.med our natural approach to problems and we receive lots of responses telling us we should not be giving un-proven information to people. There are people who are very interested in the historical uses of herbs. Its takes a person a great deal of time to learn their many uses and therefore few are willing to invest. There are doctors which prescribe herbs and homeopatic medicines, however it takes some looking to find them. As for trying to pass this information to the USA good luck. There are many people in America who have a wealth of information that few want. When I advise people to see a naturalpathic doctor they usually make jokes. We would love to pass our information on to the general public but most don't want it, and most doctors are usually unwilling to give the information to their patients so that they can decide for themselves. There are some of us on the net, and I would be very pleased to hear anything, from any culture, on natural healing. The best way to pass on this information seems to be "one person at a time". The Natural Foods Association has been doing a very good, but painfully slow job. And natural doctors must be very careful because they are watched closely by the AMA and other groups. I haven't heard of this "chewing stick" but would be interested if you can supply more information. The herb, Black Walnut, has historically restored tooth enamel. Perhaps there is a connection. Anybody with information please contribute to this very important discussion. {allegra|ihnp4}!cbdkc1!tjs
carter@gatech.CSNET (Carter Bullard) (05/06/85)
In article <954@cbdkc1.UUCP> tjs@dkc1.UUCP ( Tom Stanions) writes: > > As for trying to pass this information to the USA good luck. > There are many people in America who have a wealth of > information that few want. When I advise people to see > a naturalpathic doctor they usually make jokes. We would > love to pass our information on to the general public but > most don't want it, and most doctors are usually unwilling > to give the information to their patients so that they can > decide for themselves. There are some of us on the net, and > I would be very pleased to hear anything, from any culture, > on natural healing. The best way to pass on this > information seems to be "one person at a time". The Natural > Foods Association has been doing a very good, but painfully > slow job. And natural doctors must be very careful because > they are watched closely by the AMA and other groups. > > Anybody with information please contribute to this very > important discussion. > Actually, modern medicine is extremely interested in African traditionalist medical techniques. The NSF( the national science foundation ) has made research money available to investigating African medical techniques in the form of direct and indirect grants to African medical schools. Also most if not all of the large pharmaceutical firms have ongoing investigations into African and South American herbal therapies. The reason is very simple. Less than 15% of the plants on this planet have been characterized for their pharmaceutical properties. Everybody knows that there are going to be new drugs to come out of traditionalist's therapy, and its just a matter of time before the compounds are researched and made available. The problem that I have with the statement of Mr. Stanions above, is that he thinks that traditionalist African medicine is "natural healing" whereas western medical practice is some sort of black magic. There really isn't any difference between the two. Carter Bullard School of Information and Computer Science Georgia Institute of Technology Atlanta, Georgia 30332 CSNet:Carter @ Gatech ARPA:Carter.Gatech @ CSNet-relay.arpa uucp:...!{akgua,allegra,amd,ihnp4,hplabs,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!carter Please reply with facts, not opinions. -- Carter Bullard School of Information and Computer Science Georgia Institute of Technology Atlanta, Georgia 30332 CSNet:Carter @ Gatech ARPA:Carter.Gatech @ CSNet-relay.arpa uucp:...!{akgua,allegra,amd,ihnp4,hplabs,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!carter
aaa@link.UUCP (Wale Akinpelu) (05/07/85)
In article 492 Carter Bullard writes: >>> >>>The problem that I have with the statement of Mr. Stanions above, is that >>>he thinks that traditionalist African medicine is "natural healing" whereas >>>western medical practice is some sort of black magic. >>> >>>There really isn't any difference between the two. >>> >>> I disagree with you completely. First there is a difference between Arfican medicine and Western medical practice. In African medicine, while attempt is made to relieve you of your pain, they also try to find the cause of the problem which sometimes could be related to a dispute between people. Second African medicine is "natural healing". Here is a story to convince you. Mr. XYZ King is from one of the African countries. He is highly respected and has a high post in the goverment sector. About 5 years ago, he was told to have terminal cancer of the stomach from a localized Western hospital. He decided to have second opinion by checking in into one of the best hospitals in England. The results of all analysis confirms the earlier diagnosis. He came to U.S. to seek for another advice based on his son's recommendation. They tried several hospitals and the results confirmed the initail diagnosis. He was suppose to have part of his stomach removed to stop the spread of cancer to other parts of the body. While the serach was going on, a friend of the family asked the family to consider using a "native doctor" back at home. Mr. King decided to go back home and use the native doctor since the Western doctors told him that he only has about five more years to leave. Mr. King was with the "native doctor" for 6 months using herbs which I do not know. He did not have any part of his stomach removed and he has been bak to normal life since then. The point here, is that African medicine could not only heal but also perform better than Western medicine. I must say that both of them should continue in parallel. The problem I have with African medicine is that, the practice is not well documented and there is no assurance that you are dealing with an honest man who knows his profession. I am glad Mr. King is still alive. Wale Akinpelu {ihnp4,allegra,research}!hou2a!link!aaa
rbg@cbosgd.UUCP (Richard Goldschmidt) (05/07/85)
In article <317@link.UUCP>, Wale Akinpelu (>) replies to Carter Bullard (>>) >>The problem that I have with the statement of Mr. Stanions above, is that >>he thinks that traditionalist African medicine is "natural healing" whereas >>western medical practice is some sort of black magic. >> >>There really isn't any difference between the two. >> > I disagree with you completely. First there is a difference between Arfican > medicine and Western medical practice. In African medicine, while attempt > is made to relieve you of your pain, they also try to find the cause > of the problem which sometimes could be related to a dispute between > people. Second African medicine is "natural healing". > > Wale Akinpelu > {ihnp4,allegra,research}!hou2a!link!aaa I was not convinced of the difference between "African medicine" and "Western medicine" by the example Wale gave here. A common class of drugs used in chemotherapy (which block cell division) are related to either colchicine or vinblastine both of which are derived from plants. The herbal treatments provided may have had a similar mechanism. You'll have to find a better example ... -- Rich Goldschmidt {ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax,allegra,seismo} !cbosgd!rbg ARPA: cbosgd!rbg@seismo or cbosgd!rbg@ucbvax
sdyer@bbnccv.UUCP (Steve Dyer) (05/08/85)
This kind of discussion crops up regularly in net.med, but it's
worth reemphasizing here. "Western" medicine is a profession
rooted in humanistic values of service and aid to the sick and
dying, but its strongest tool since the 19th century has been
the scientific method--a therapy must produce repeatable beneficial
results in order to be accepted by the medical community. Like it
or not, a sample size of one is useless in predicting a therapy's
value in Western medicine--there are too many uncontrolled variables,
all which may influence a therapeutic outcome, to give it any
predictive value.
Medicine, because it deals in such a precious commodity as human
life and health, is fundamentally conservative. It prefers to
treat patients with therapies it knows to be of value, or at least,
as the maxim says, to do no harm. This means, for example, that
effective folk remedies might take a while to be used; they are
given the same scrutiny as other, less "natural" treatments.
--
/Steve Dyer
{decvax,linus,ima,ihnp4}!bbncca!sdyer
sdyer@bbnccv.ARPAjhull@spp2.UUCP (Jeff Hull) (05/14/85)
In article <397@bbnccv.UUCP> sdyer@bbnccv.UUCP (Steve Dyer) writes: >"Western" medicine is a profession rooted in humanistic values of >service and aid to the sick and dying, but its strongest tool since the >19th century has been the scientific method--a therapy must produce >repeatable beneficial results in order to be accepted by the medical >community. ... Medicine, ... , is fundamentally conservative. It >prefers to treat patients with therapies it knows to be of value, or at >least, as the maxim says, to do no harm. With all due respect to Steve, & to the many honest & dedicated medical practicianers in the US & elsewhere, this is not my experience with Western medicine. The US physician's first interest is to avoid running afoul of the AMA, then to avoid malpractice suits (which is inextricably intertwined with the first), then to help the patient (as he sees fit) while making money. I am not belittling those dedicated people who work long hours for low pay; I am taking aim at the medical establishment in the US & the policies it has set up. One example of this is the current state of pre- & post-natal care for women & current birthing practices in the US. Another is cancer treatment. The basic orientation of natural medicine is to prevent disease by keeping people healthy; the basic orientation of the AMA seems to be alleviate the symptom & ignore the disease. -- Blessed Be, Jeff Hull {decvax,hplabs,ihnp4,scdrdcf,ucbvax} 13817 Yukon Ave. trwrb!trwspp!spp2!jhull Hawthorne, CA 90250 34o3'15" N by 118o14'28" W
werner@aecom.UUCP (Craig Werner) (05/17/85)
> With all due respect to Steve, & to the many honest & dedicated > medical practicianers in the US & elsewhere, this is not my experience > with Western medicine. > > The US physician's first interest is to avoid running afoul of the > AMA > > The basic orientation of natural medicine is to prevent disease by > keeping people healthy; the basic orientation of the AMA seems to be > alleviate the symptom & ignore the disease. > > Jeff Hull {decvax,hplabs,ihnp4,scdrdcf,ucbvax} To address the last first. Ignoring the disease is not what they teach us to do in Med School. Not only do they cover the symptoms and all the possible diseases, but they also keep reminded us to treat the illness (which is what I think you meant.) Two, I belong to the AMA, and I'll tell you, they have a lot of trouble getting physicians to join. Medicine is not a closed shop and the AMA is not a union and I'd wish people would stop treating it like one. Three - as far as keeping people healthy - have you ever really TRIED to tell someone to lose weight, give up smoking, or take up walking. It just doesn't work -- it's like saying "Give up everything you like, and start doing everything you hate because it's good for." And just to add to that, lung cancer deaths in doctors started falling 15 years before they started falling in the general population - mostly because doctors quit smoking before everybody else, so much for a lack of health concern. Sorry that you had such a bad experience with your physicians, Jeff, but 99% of the MDs I know (and I'm meeting more every day) do not fit your description. -- Craig Werner !philabs!aecom!werner What do you expect? Watermelons are out of season!
rcj@burl.UUCP (R. Curtis Jackson) (05/28/85)
>Sorry that you had such a bad experience with your physicians, Jeff, >but 99% of the MDs I know (and I'm meeting more every day) do not fit your >description. I have had mostly good experiences (relatively) with physicians, but I personally agree with Jeff. One of the main problems with physicians is that they don't take the time to explain what is really going on. A representative example: For several years off and on I have had plantar warts. These are nothing more than warts that grow on the sole of one's feet, but due to the pressure of normal walking and standing they grow inwards, putting all the pressure of one's weight on nerve endings and causing \much/ pain. I went to my dermatologist (treating me for acne at the time), and he took one look and said "Yep, those'll have to come out." Well, it is a litle-known historical fact that the bottoms of the feet were long relished by torturers in dungeons because exquisite pain could be imparted there. I found out the hard way. The pain (even of the multiple shots to deaden the area) was so bad, and the recovery so nasty (I couldn't walk for quite a while) that I dreaded my second trip a year later. It was just as bad. I managed to avoid them until I moved to Greensboro, then they recurred yet again. I went dejectedly to the first dermatologist I found in the book and told him to go ahead and cut them out. Imagine my surprise when he refused outright. He sat me down and explained to me that these warts were caused by flagging T-cells (a type of white blood cell), that warts come and go as the T-cells strengthen/multiply and weaken/diminish in number, and that he had something he called "Cocaine for T-cells". He gave me the cure rates for surgery such as I had had before (15-20%), acid treatment (very long, and only 35-40%), and this treatment (75%). He then said that he would be glad to try the acid if I so desired, but he would recommend the injection and would NOT do the surgery. I elected the obvious. He took out an incredibly small-gauge needle and very slowly and gently injected around the warts, then told me to come back in about 10 days. I did so and he removed the warts without any discomfort to me and WITHOUT ANESTHETIC. His fee was quite reasonable as well. He told me that, if by chance I was not cured, he would have a laser in his office by the next time and he had (unconfirmed) reports of 95% cure rates with them. That was 3 years ago, and I haven't had a days trouble since. The point of this whole harangue is that through bad childhood illness, 8 years of allergy shots, bronchial pneumonia twice a year in my teens, half my stomach removed at 16, and two bouts of colitis; this is the ONLY doctor (and I bet I've met more of them than you have!) who EVER fully explained to me what was going on and laid out my choices with cure percentages and the whole nine yards. -- The MAD Programmer -- 919-228-3313 (Cornet 291) alias: Curtis Jackson ...![ ihnp4 ulysses cbosgd mgnetp ]!burl!rcj ...![ ihnp4 cbosgd akgua masscomp ]!clyde!rcj