werner@aecom.UUCP (Craig Werner) (05/30/85)
Let me just correct one misconception that keeps cropping up and then let's drop the whole subject. The original study I cited was for RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS. It lasted 5 years. Ten years AFTER THE STUDY WAS OVER, it was shown that 5 people who had participated in it had gotten cancer. All five of these had been in the control group however, had not recieved any drug, and therefore the fact that they got cancer is just a coincidence. (This was an older population, it happens.) The point I wanted to make was had the coincidence fallen the other way, that drug (an immunosuppresant) would have most likely been banned as a known (talk about Medical proof!?) carcinogen. Now we've been though it before. Let's all save the net a lot of phone bills, and please do not respond to this article. -- Craig Werner !philabs!aecom!werner "The world is just a straight man for you sometimes"
seifert@hammer.UUCP (Snoopy) (06/03/85)
> The original study I cited was for RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS. It lasted >5 years. Ten years AFTER THE STUDY WAS OVER, it was shown that 5 people >who had participated in it had gotten cancer. All five of these had been in >the control group however, had not recieved any drug, and therefore the fact >that they got cancer is just a coincidence. (This was an older population, >it happens.) > The point I wanted to make was had the coincidence fallen the other >way, that drug (an immunosuppresant) would have most likely been banned as >a known (talk about Medical proof!?) carcinogen. This is exactly the reason why double blind tests were invented. If there is enough "Medical proof" to ban the drug, there's enough "Medical proof" to ban the "placebo". (from the Ideal Placebo Company?) If there is not enough "Medical proof" to ban the "placebo", then there is not enough "Medical proof" to ban the drug. You CANNOT just say "This is a placebo. It is 'inert'" I'm not claiming that the placebos used were carcinogenic. They *probably* weren't. But you can't ASSUME that they aren't just because you THINK that they are inert. You have to look at a large enough sampling for those 5 cases to dissappear into the noise. Note to whoever it was: I've read that medical student receive about 3-5 hours (that's hours, not credit-hours) of instruction in nutrition. The typical doctor knows about as much about nutrition as his/her secretary, less if the secretary is on a diet! (If this has changed recently, I'm sure Craig will update my information.) Note to the other whoever-it-was: Feel free to compare this with the amount of statistics you have to wade through to get an engineering degree. >Now we've been though it before. Let's all save the net a lot of phone >bills, and please do not respond to this article. >-- > Craig Werner No, Craig, we are not just going to hand you the 'last word' on a silver platter. If you want the last word, then present an argument that doesn't have any holes in it. Snoopy tektronix!mako!seifert
ems@amdahl.UUCP (ems) (06/03/85)
> Let me just correct one misconception that keeps cropping up and > then let's drop the whole subject. Hmmm, seems that the trend continues. 'Let me get the last word in, then all the rest of you just be quiet' is usually indicative of a desire to back out of something without getting burned in the process *OR* a desire to force ones views on others without equal time. Wonder which it is ... > The original study I cited was for RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS. It lasted > 5 years. Ten years AFTER THE STUDY WAS OVER, it was shown that 5 people > who had participated in it had gotten cancer. All five of these had been in > the control group however, had not recieved any drug, and therefore the fact > that they got cancer is just a coincidence. (This was an older population, > it happens.) Not even the much talked about Placebos? > Now we've been though it before. Let's all save the net a lot of phone > bills, and please do not respond to this article. > -- > Craig Werner Craig, some friendly advice. Actions have consequences. Asking for them to go away rarely works. If you don't like the outcomes of your actions, try changing the actions. BTW, a plea to 'let me have the last word' is a sure bet for generating a response; this is the net afterall :-) -- E. Michael Smith ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems Tilapia Zilli is the way and the light. This is the obligatory disclaimer of everything.