sdyer@bbncc5.UUCP (Steve Dyer) (07/29/85)
> Colds clear the body of > catarrh and other build ups, some sicknesses are the body removing problems. > The worst thing to do in many cases (and the first thing that doctors often > do) is to suppress the symptoms. A child said, What is catarrh? How could I answer the child?....I do not know what it is any more than he. I guess it must be the aether of indisposition, out of hopeful whole cloth woven. (with apologies to Walt Whitman) What we see here in Mr. Stanions' postings, and especially here, is a return to a totemic pre-Pasteur theory and practice, totally divorced from scientific principles. In fact, many of his sentiments would not be out of place in a 19th century (or earlier) medical essay. Of course, none of this has any basis in biology, biochemistry or 20th century medicine. What is catarrh? What is it made of? How does it "build up?" Why has modern medical science ignored this important, um, thing, um, waste product, um, elan vital? Sheesh! If I seem impatient, it is because of the recycled theories, long discredited, expressed here by Stanions and his kin which are being passed off as "medicine." This isn't medicine, this is folk religion, and it deserves to be called such. I can't wait until net.physics readers have to contend with "phlogiston" and "aether" once again. I hear they're coming back in style. -- /Steve Dyer {decvax,linus,ima,ihnp4}!bbncca!sdyer sdyer@bbnccv.ARPA
tjs@cbdkc1.UUCP ( Tom Stanions) (07/30/85)
In article <245@bbncc5.UUCP> sdyer@bbncc5.UUCP (Steve Dyer) writes: > >What we see here in Mr. Stanions' postings, and especially here, is a >return to a totemic pre-Pasteur theory and practice, totally divorced from >scientific principles. In fact, many of his sentiments would not be out of >place in a 19th century (or earlier) medical essay. Of course, none of this >has any basis in biology, biochemistry or 20th century medicine. > >What is catarrh? What is it made of? How does it "build up?" >Why has modern medical science ignored this important, um, thing, >um, waste product, um, elan vital? Sheesh! > >/Steve Dyer >{decvax,linus,ima,ihnp4}!bbncca!sdyer >sdyer@bbnccv.ARPA I have tried to make it a point that people survived well before 20th century meidicine. Must all knowledge prior to 1900 be trashed out so that modern medicine can continue it's research? Modern medicine's ignorance of catarrh is most interesting. If the body fills with various fluids and wastes (other then the obvious ones) then by what method should they be disposed of? In fact sir, what you see here in my postings is an attempt to understand human problems on a human level. Do you know what a cold is? Is it a "bug", virus etc? Or is it only a symptom of an underlying problem such as a build up of catarrh or a weakness of the immune system. In most cases the proper treatment is no treatment, for the body is working as it should. If the treatment was right in 1887 then it would be right in 1985, 3045 and 1023 BC. Modern medicine is often only right for a couple of years and therefore probably never right in those cases. {allegra|ihnp4}!cbdkc1!tjs
wscott@joevax.UUCP (W. Scott Meeks) (07/30/85)
For those of you who don't have dictionaries handy, my American Heritage says: ca.tarrh: n. Inflammation of mucous membranes, expecially of the nose and throat. [And if this were net.nlang, I would include the etymology. . .] Draw your own conclusions. . . .
bch@mcnc.UUCP (Byron Howes) (07/31/85)
In article <1072@cbdkc1.UUCP> tjs@dkc1.UUCP ( Tom Stanions) writes: > >I have tried to make it a point that people survived well before 20th century >meidicine. Hmmm. Cloud-Cuckoo land again. Thanks, Major Tom, I'll keep my penicillin. It has saved my life at least once that I know of. If you want to run around with inflamed mucous membranes, more power to you. In my case it was symptomatic of the onset of meningitis. The meningitis was the result of exposure to a bacterium, not the eating of overprocessed food. -- Byron C. Howes ...!{decvax,akgua}!mcnc!ecsvax!bch
wfi@rti-sel.UUCP (William Ingogly) (07/31/85)
In article <1072@cbdkc1.UUCP> tjs@dkc1.UUCP ( Tom Stanions) writes: >>What is catarrh? What is it made of? How does it "build up?" >>Why has modern medical science ignored this important, um, thing, >>um, waste product, um, elan vital? Sheesh! >> >>/Steve Dyer > >I have tried to make it a point that people survived well before 20th century >meidicine. Must all knowledge prior to 1900 be trashed out so that modern >medicine can continue it's research? Modern medicine's ignorance of catarrh is >most interesting. You haven't answered Steve's questions. If the existence of something called 'catarrh' (which my dictionary defines as an obsolete name for an inflammation of a mucous membrane) is to be accepted by the rest of us as a possible causal agent in illness, you're going to have tell us WHAT it is and WHY there's been a conspiracy to suppress this 'knowledge.' Science and medicine involves the refinement of models based on acquired information. Many 19th century and earlier models of the body were based on incomplete knowledge and incorrect observations. The brain was once thought (I seem to recall reading) to be a kind of radiator or cooling organ for the blood, the heart was the seat of emotions, etc. These earlier models were 'trashed' because better models came along that better explain observed phenomena. As to people 'surviving well' prior to 20th century medicine, take a look at the mortality rates for various diseases prior to 1900 and at the changes in the mean life span over the last two or three centuries. Conspiracy to suppress vital information, indeed. Modern medicine's 'ignorance' of catarrh is no more interesting than modern medicine's 'ignorance' of models of human behavior that were popular in Shakespeare's day. I don't know what to suggest if you don't believe that modern medicine knows more about the body and human behavior than ancient medicine, but I'm sure you can find a few hunter-gatherer groups that are looking for shamans if you try hard enough :-) -- Cheers, Bill Ingogly
geb@cadre.ARPA (Gordon E. Banks) (08/03/85)
It is clear from his thought disorder that tjs is suffering from an excess of black bile. I prescribe two leeches overnight, followed by blistering and cupping. If still symptomatic, a purge of calomel.
slb@drutx.UUCP (Sue Brezden) (08/05/85)
> >I have tried to make it a point that people survived well before 20th century >meidicine. > I have a project for you if you really believe this. Go into any old cemetery. Then start looking at the family plots. Do you know what you will see? Whole families wiped out. Especially children. 5, 6, 7 or more children taken by typhoid, diptheria or whooping cough at a time. Carvings expressing sorrow at losing "our sweet girl" at the age of 13 from "a fever". Then go to a newer cemetery. Will you see such a thing? Not in a section where people are wealthy enough to afford modern medical care. I, for one, being a baby born from a mother with placenta prevaria (I hope that was spelled correctly) would not be here without modern medicine. I have heard my grandmother express her joy that her children could have 4 children and expect to have them all live, rather than 10, and expect at least 6 to die before reaching adulthood. -- Sue Brezden Real World: Room 1B17 Net World: ihnp4!drutx!slb AT&T Information Systems 11900 North Pecos Westminster, Co. 80234 (303)538-3829 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Your god may be dead, but mine aren't. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
betsy@dartvax.UUCP (Betsy Hanes Perry) (08/08/85)
> > > >I have tried to make it a point that people survived well before 20th century > >meidicine. > > > > I have a project for you if you really believe this. Go into any > old cemetery. Then start looking at the family plots. Do you know > what you will see? Whole families wiped out. Especially children. > 5, 6, 7 or more children taken by typhoid, diptheria or whooping > cough at a time. Carvings expressing sorrow at losing "our sweet > girl" at the age of 13 from "a fever". Ayup. Here at Dartmouth, the college cemetary is near the heart of campus. There's a section of it devoted to students (after all, before 'modern' embalming and transportation, they tended to bury you where you fell!). One poor family, around 1810, sent four sons to Dartmouth and lost all of them to tuberculosis. TB and drowning were the major causes of death in that section of the cemetery. I'm not claiming that the AMA has cured drowning, but I certainly don't hear of many cases of fatal consumption nowadays. It is naive at best to think that most people were healthier before the advent of modern medical methods. Your grandfather undoubtedly was a tough old coot; simply surviving past childhood was an accomplishment not too long ago. He likely survived *in spite* of the current medical practices, not *because* of them. -- Elizabeth Hanes Perry UUCP: {decvax |ihnp4 | linus| cornell}!dartvax!betsy CSNET: betsy@dartmouth ARPA: betsy%dartmouth@csnet-relay "Ooh, ick!" -- Penfold
wilde@apollo.uucp (Scott Wilde) (08/09/85)
>It is clear from his thought disorder that tjs is suffering from >an excess of black bile. I prescribe two leeches overnight, >followed by blistering and cupping. If still symptomatic, >a purge of calomel. Hmmm. My diagnosis is a demon of the 4th rank. I prescribe trepanning followed immediately by exorcism.