holly@hpfcla.UUCP (holly) (07/31/85)
I recently had a friend who went on the Macrobiotic Diet (she had terminal cancer). One of the things the diet stresses is to NOT use aluminum pans. I have also heard through the media that there could be a possible connection between Alzheimer's Disease and the use of aluminum pans. Does anyone have any information about this? I would really like to know more about this.
wws@ukma.UUCP (Bill Stoll) (08/04/85)
The first indication that aluminum was a serious brain toxin came to light back when kidney dialysis first started. The first series of patients all turned into vegetables after about 6 months of dialysis. Obviously, 6 months of life was not worth spending the rest of your earthly existance as a vegetable (these people didn't die--they just lost their cognitive function--almost exactly like Alzheimer's). The researchers discovered that the Aluminum preservative in the solution settled into the brain tissue (just like autopsies show in Alzheimer's). When the Aluminum was removed from the solution the problem never recurred. Unfortunately, all those who were vegetables stayed that way (just like Alzheimer's). There were a few solitary "voices in the wilderness" back in the 40's warning about the dangers of Asbestos. Economic, and political, pressures covered up the evidence. Finally, 30 years later the accumulation (which takes 30-4- years to cause the damage) of evidence was so overwhelming that even the most obtuse "scientist" was forced to agree. You all know that story by now. Aluminum is the same. It takes 30-40 years, in this culture, for the accumulation to cause severe and permanent damage. There are a few solitary "voices in the wilderness", who are trying to warn us about Aluminum. The same people are still around who, for economic and political reasons, are trying to cover up the data. Start reading the lables on the things you eat. Nearly everything has some Aluminum added to it. Most public drinking water supplies have a high concentration of Aluminum added to them--; it is a cheap method of flocculation (part of the sewage treatment). Since the present epidemic of Alzheimer's started exactly 40 years after this country started adding lots of Aluminum to those things we take into our bodies, don't you think it behooves a prudent person to err on the side of caution until----------? Until people get out of the habit of thinking; "If it doesn't kill me, or make me sick, today or tomorrow, it is perfectly safe!", the government will keep on misunderstanding the pollution problem. If we've learned anything in the past 10 years it is: we cannot depend on the government to protect our health. Those of you who are willing to give them that power over you are welcome to continue to support the "Medical/Pharmaceutical Complex" with your bodies and your $. The rest of us have got to get busy gathering data to make up our own minds. There are lots of community organizations, and a few national ones: 1. Common Cause, 2. CSPI, 3. Kellog Foundation, 4. The Peoples Medical Society (Rodale), etc., who are doing good work in this area. They deserve our support. My grand mother used to tell me that Aluminum Pans were poisonous. She is dead now so I will never find out how she knew (she died at age 88 in full possession of her faculties). My mother laughed at my grandmother's foolishness and flaunted her new set of Aluminum pans (after all, they were so much lighter--and saved so much $). My mother is now 69 years old and has Alzheimer's. It seems the Aluminum Pans weren't such a bargain after all. Obviously there are many factors involved in Alzheimer's disease. One of them is the old adage: "Use it, or lose it!". People who watch a lot of TV are a lot more likely to get Alzheimer's. If it weren't for the renal dialysis serendipidous discovery, I would wonder about the Aluminum controversy too.
murphy@phri.UUCP (Ellen Murphy) (08/06/85)
> I have also heard through the media that there could be a possible connection > between Alzheimer's Disease and the use of aluminum pans. The association between Alzheimer's disease and aluminum, which is found in elevated levels in brain tissue of Alzheimer's victims, is believed by most workers in the field to be a _result_ of their abnormal brain metabolism, not a causal factor. This is based in part on epidemiological studies that show that workers in the aluminum industry do not have an elevated risk of developing Alzheimer's disease. I wouldn't worry about cooking with aluminum pans. Ellen Murphy (allegra!phri!murphy)
tjs@cbdkc1.UUCP ( Tom Stanions) (08/07/85)
> I have also heard through the media that there could be a possible connection > between Alzheimer's Disease and the use of aluminum pans. I presonally am convinced that aluminum is bad for you. Whether you agree or not, isn't it wise to avoid aluminum when it is not neccessary? Steel pans work better and I have not heard of any bad effects. We threw out all our aluminum pans including a pressure cooker and replaced them with stainless or cast iron. Cost seems to be the only reason for aluminum, if there is any possible problem then it seems to me that expensive is really cheap. Pans aside, the main source of aluminum seems to be from anti-persperants. All that I have looked at contain aluminum chlorhydrate. This is absorbed through the underarms. One family member was tested and showed high levels of aluminum poisoning, since removing all known sources of aluminum over a two year period the lowering of the aluminum level has been painfully slow. Moral - It is easy to avoid so why not do it? Waiting for medical community approval could result in disaster. {allegra|ihnp4}!cbdkc1!tjs
rick@neuro1.UUCP (Rick Gray) (08/08/85)
In article <2015@ukma.UUCP> wws@ukma.UUCP (Bill Stoll) writes: >The first indication that aluminum was a serious brain toxin came to >light back when kidney dialysis first started. The first series of >patients all turned into vegetables after about 6 months of dialysis. The January 1985 _Scientific American_ has a good review article on Alzheimer's disease (Alz.) by Richard J. Wurtman. It covers 6 models of the disease and the evidence supporting and contradicting each of them. One model is that aluminum salts MAY contribute to the development of Alz. It is pointed out that some of the symptoms of dialysis-associated dementia are not present in Alz. The conclusion of the section on toxic models (based on this and other evidence in the article) is "It is possible that aluminum cannot by itself give rise to the clinical and pathologic indicators of the disease but that its presence contributes to their appearance in people exposed to another causative factor". >... The same people are still around who, for economic and >political reasons, are trying to cover up the data. How dare they cover up information by hiding it in magazines sold in practically every drug store and super market in the country?! Not to mention hiding it in medical journals in libraries! >... Those of you who are willing to >give them that power over you are welcome to continue to support the >"Medical/Pharmaceutical Complex" with your bodies and your $. The >rest of us have got to get busy gathering data to make up our own >minds. Good idea! Let me know how your experiments turn out. -- Rick Gray Program in Neuroscience uucp: {ihnp4!shell,rice}!neuro1!rick Baylor Col. Med., Houston *** I am not a spokesman for BCM (or anyone else) ***
werner@aecom.UUCP (Craig Werner) (08/09/85)
Before we ask whether or not Aluminum itself is a risk, lets consider the question of dosage. The amount of flaking you get from Aluminum pans is miniscule at best, much less than you would get from even a moderate intake of Antacids. As for aluminum in Alzheimer's patients' brains, remember that a lot of these patients have been on Maalox (Aluminum Hydroxide) for years, so it may be all artifact. (At one time, before they found the organism, someone suggested that Nickel causes Legionaire's Disease - because high levels of Nickel had been found in that tissue samples. As it turned out, the microtome used to cut the samples was Nickel-plated steel, and the only thing they had picked up was the shavings.) As for the rate of Alzheimer's rising 40 years after the introduction of Aluminum pans, try substituting '30 years after the widespread introduction' of antibiotics' or '30 years after the introduction of chemotherapy for Tuberculosis'. There are more Alzheimer's patients because there are much more old people. -- Craig Werner !philabs!aecom!werner "The world is just a straight man for you sometimes"
fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann) (08/09/85)
>> I have also heard through the media that there could be a possible connection >> between Alzheimer's Disease and the use of aluminum pans. In article <376@phri.UUCP> murphy@phri.UUCP (Ellen Murphy) writes: >The association between Alzheimer's disease and aluminum, which >is found in elevated levels in brain tissue of Alzheimer's >victims, is believed by most workers in the field to be a >_result_ of their abnormal brain metabolism, not a causal factor. Even with an abnormal brain metabolism, the brain can't store aluminum if you don't let the body take in the aluminum in the first place. >This is based in part on epidemiological studies that show >that workers in the aluminum industry do not have an elevated >risk of developing Alzheimer's disease. I wouldn't worry about >cooking with aluminum pans. Why would workers in the aluminum industry absorb greater than average aluminum? They don't EAT the stuff (as we do when we cook with it). Unless there is some reason why aluminum workers would aborb greater than average aluminum, I cannot see the relevance of such a study. Frank Silbermann
geb@cadre.ARPA (Gordon E. Banks) (08/10/85)
The posting by Stoll concerning Aluminum and Alzheimer's Disease is a fascinating example of the kind of reasoning that leads to health faddism. A dissection of its arguments may be enlightening. It starts with a observed scientific fact, discovered by legitimate medical researchers: >The first indication that aluminum was a serious brain toxin came to >light back when kidney dialysis first started. The first series of >patients all turned into vegetables after about 6 months of dialysis. > >Obviously, 6 months of life was not worth spending the rest of your >earthly existance as a vegetable (these people didn't die--they just >lost their cognitive function--almost exactly like Alzheimer's). The >researchers discovered that the Aluminum preservative in the solution >settled into the brain tissue (just like autopsies show in >Alzheimer's). When the Aluminum was removed from the solution the >problem never recurred. Unfortunately, all those who were vegetables >stayed that way (just like Alzheimer's). The words "just like Alzheimer's" suggest a hypothesis which was quite legitimate at the time of the first discovery, that since there was a dementia in which Aluminum was implicated, perhaps it plays a role in Alzheimer's. This was not lost on medical researchers, who pursued this lead. Unfortunately, the connection seems to be fortuitous (as other posters have shown). Now tell a little story that makes it seem like legitimate "scientists" have lied to the public in the past: > >There were a few solitary "voices in the wilderness" back in the 40's >warning about the dangers of Asbestos. Economic, and political, >pressures covered up the evidence. Finally, 30 years later the >accumulation (which takes 30-4- years to cause the damage) of evidence >was so overwhelming that even the most obtuse "scientist" was forced >to agree. You all know that story by now. Now the bald unsubstantiated statement: > >Aluminum is the same. > Followed by statements that might sound plausible, but that the writer has no evidence for (it only took a few months for Aluminum to cause dialysis dementia): >It takes 30-40 years, in this culture, for the >accumulation to cause severe and permanent damage. Now the Birch-like conspiracy theory: >There are a few >solitary "voices in the wilderness", who are trying to warn us about >Aluminum. The same people are still around who, for economic and >political reasons, are trying to cover up the data. Bomb Alcoa! Save our precious bodily fluids! Now the rising paranoia: > Start reading the >lables on the things you eat. Nearly everything has some Aluminum >added to it. Most public drinking water supplies have a high >concentration of Aluminum added to them--; it is a cheap method of >flocculation (part of the sewage treatment). Now throw in a few false facts: > >Since the present epidemic of Alzheimer's started exactly 40 years >after this country started adding lots of Aluminum to those things we >take into our bodies, don't you think it behooves a prudent person to >err on the side of caution until----------? As a matter of fact, dementia of the senile variety has been recognized since antiquity. As early as the 17th century we find descriptions of patients who probably had Alzheimer's disease. Of course, it wasn't until the 19th century that pathology had advanced to the point that Alzheimer could separate out those having the disease he described from the mish-mash of other dementias. At that time the population over 65 was less than 4%, whereas now it is over 10% and growing. Then, no one made a fuss over what was seen as the natural course of aging, now people expect to live longer and don't want to become demented. There is absolutely no evidence that the incidence of Alzheimer's has increased when population aging is taken into account. Now for the proof: > >My grand mother used to tell me that Aluminum Pans were poisonous. >She is dead now so I will never find out how she knew (she died at age >88 in full possession of her faculties). My mother laughed at my >grandmother's foolishness and flaunted her new set of Aluminum pans >(after all, they were so much lighter--and saved so much $). My >mother is now 69 years old and has Alzheimer's. It seems the Aluminum >Pans weren't such a bargain after all. Of course, isn't it obvious? This kind of reasoning is thought to account for superstitions. The black cat crossed my path this morning and now look what happened. It must have been the cause of my trouble. The human mind looks very hard for cause-and-effect. It tends to latch onto any convenient cause, especially if it fits some preconceived notions. Isn't health faddism just a modern superstition? > >Obviously there are many factors involved in Alzheimer's disease. One >of them is the old adage: "Use it, or lose it!". People who watch a >lot of TV are a lot more likely to get Alzheimer's. If it weren't for >the renal dialysis serendipidous discovery, I would wonder about the >Aluminum controversy too. I don't know whether he is serious about the TV. I would say that with today's programs, the Alzheimer's patients are about the only ones who could stand it. Please, you vitamin-freaks, don't stop posting. It is the best entertainment around.
larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (08/10/85)
> I presonally am convinced that aluminum is bad for you. Whether you agree or > not, isn't it wise to avoid aluminum when it is not neccessary? ... > ... > ... One family member was tested and showed high levels of aluminum > poisoning, since removing all known sources of aluminum over a two year period > the lowering of the aluminum level has been painfully slow. Moral - It is easy > to avoid so why not do it? Waiting for medical community approval could result > in disaster. Oh, balls... I would suggest that you also cease the use of all glass and ceramic cooking, eating, and drinking implements since most glass and ceramic material contains traces of calcium aluminosilicate, which is present in a *vast* number of minerals ranging from anorthite to zoisite. Yet another source of the Dreaded Aluminum... Where will this trace element madness stop??? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York | | UUCP {decvax,dual,rocksanne,rocksvax,watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry | | {rice,shell}!baylor!/ | | VOICE 716/741-9185 syr!buf!/ | | TELEX {via WUI} 69-71461 ansbak: ELGECOMCLR | | | | "Have you hugged your cat today?" | +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (08/11/85)
> The posting by Stoll concerning Aluminum and Alzheimer's Disease > is a fascinating example of the kind of reasoning that leads to > health faddism. A dissection of its arguments may be enlightening. > ... > Followed by statements that might sound plausible, but that the > writer has no evidence for (it only took a few months for Aluminum > to cause dialysis dementia): > ... > Now throw in a few false facts: > ... > Please, you vitamin-freaks, don't stop posting. It is the best entertainment > around. RIGHT ON! I was beginning to feel in the minority here. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York | | UUCP {decvax,dual,rocksanne,rocksvax,watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry | | {rice,shell}!baylor!/ | | VOICE 716/741-9185 syr!buf!/ | | TELEX {via WUI} 69-71461 ansbak: ELGECOMCLR | | | | "Have you hugged your cat today?" | +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann) (08/11/85)
Recent postings suggested possible dangers of aluminum cookware and distilled water from plastic bottles. I suppose we should also avoid softdrinks stored in aluminum cans and plastic bottles. One good thing to come of all this is that it makes the New Coke / Classic Coke debate moot (since both are equally deadly). :-) Frank Silbermann
peter@baylor.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (08/15/85)
> Recent postings suggested possible dangers of aluminum cookware and distilled > water from plastic bottles. I suppose we should also avoid softdrinks stored > in aluminum cans and plastic bottles. One good thing to come of all this is > that it makes the New Coke / Classic Coke debate moot (since both are equally > deadly). :-) Considering that coke contains a moderately strong acid (phosphoric acid) I wouls thing that this would be the #1 source of aluminum in the diet of coke drinkers. -- Peter da Silva (the mad Australian) UUCP: ...!shell!neuro1!{hyd-ptd,baylor,datafac}!peter MCI: PDASILVA; CIS: 70216,1076
1983dmd@hou2a.UUCP (L.MORRISON) (08/15/85)
>Where will this trace element madness stop??? <
When you stop COOKING in your glass, ceramics, eating utensils, etc.
that are traced with calcium aluminousilicate.
Lorna