antics@druak.UUCP (GeigerL) (08/09/85)
<Eat more dried fruit.> Why is it that people eat prunes or other dried fruit for a laxative effect, but they don't consider eating fresh fruit. Is it because the dried fruit requires so much water to digest and the sponge-like situation causes the desired effect? Or perhaps there is some chemical change when the fruit is dried? This is a strange question, but not a joke! Lisa Geiger ihnp4!druak!antics
sdyer@bbncc5.UUCP (Steve Dyer) (08/11/85)
> Why is it that people eat prunes or other dried fruit for a laxative > effect, but they don't consider eating fresh fruit. Is it because > the dried fruit requires so much water to digest and the sponge-like > situation causes the desired effect? Or perhaps there is some chemical > change when the fruit is dried? I wasn't aware that dried fruits in general act as laxatives, except possibly insofaras they contribute a concentrated source of pectin and fiber. Prunes seem to have a laxative effect of their own quite separate from the fact that they are consumed as dried--try some prune juice as an experiment. I don't know what chemical is the active agent in prunes; there was a claim a while ago that oxyphenisatin, a prescription laxative, was somehow related to the agent in prunes (and therefore supposedly a bit more "natural" and "better" that other laxatives) but this turned out to be advertising hype, and the stuff was pulled off the shelf for liver toxicity anyway! I might mention that the actual physical need for laxatives is far less that the amounts consumed by our society. A balanced diet high in fruits and fiber should be all that one needs to avoid the scourge of "irregularity", a condition whose ill effects are poorly documented but greatly feared. -- /Steve Dyer {decvax,linus,ima,ihnp4}!bbncca!sdyer sdyer@bbnccv.ARPA
tjs@cbdkc1.UUCP ( Tom Stanions) (08/14/85)
In article <323@bbncc5.UUCP> sdyer@bbncc5.UUCP (Steve Dyer) writes: > I don't know what chemical is the active agent in prunes; >there was a claim a while ago that oxyphenisatin, a prescription laxative, >was somehow related to the agent in prunes Can't you deal with this on a factual basis, if people eat prunes it increases the number of trips to the restroom. Prunes seem to be harmless and eating them in excess seems to cause only more of the above condition. Why must you find a chemical equivalent? There is none. By the way most chemical laxitives work by irritating the bowel system. >I might mention that the actual physical need for laxatives is far >less that the amounts consumed by our society. A balanced diet high >in fruits and fiber should be all that one needs to avoid the scourge >of "irregularity", a condition whose ill effects are poorly documented >but greatly feared. >-- >/Steve Dyer Actually the condition is very well documented and is most certainly something to be concerned about. I will agree though that conventional doctors know little about this condition or the problems it causes. I agree that a diet high in fruits and truly natural fiber (not the kind you find in cereal boxes) are important. But also a diet devoid of refined foods is a must. To just add good food to your diet is a wise move, but someone truly interested in health must also eliminate bad food. {allegra|ihnp4}!cbdkc1!tjs
sdyer@bbncc5.UUCP (Steve Dyer) (08/16/85)
> > I don't know what chemical is the active agent in prunes; > >there was a claim a while ago that oxyphenisatin, a prescription laxative, > >was somehow related to the agent in prunes > > Can't you deal with this on a factual basis, if people eat prunes it increases > the number of trips to the restroom. Prunes seem to be harmless and eating > them in excess seems to cause only more of the above condition. Why must you > find a chemical equivalent? There is none. Piffle. The original request to the net asked what the active agent was in prunes. If one were interested, one could certainly discover what substances contributed to the laxative effect. Then we could have de-laxatived prunes, much like decaffeinated coffee! :-) I'm joking. Really. > By the way most chemical laxitives (sic) work by irritating the bowel system. Yes, many do, for example phenolphthalein and bisacodyl and the aforementioned oxyphenisatin. But so do so-called "natural" substances like senna extract and castor oil. Drugs like magnesium salts and other saline laxatives draw water into the colon and stimulate activity that way. > >I might mention that the actual physical need for laxatives is far > >less that the amounts consumed by our society. > Actually the condition is very well documented and is most certainly something > to be concerned about. I will agree though that conventional doctors know > little about this condition or the problems it causes. > I would LOVE to know what problems constipation causes. I can only imagine the toxins which build up! In my own perverse way, I sometime enjoy going to shows like the "Whole Life Expo" which is held regularly in Boston. For those of you unfamilar with these shows, they are EXACTLY like computer fairs, but the vendors sell health. I turned down one aisle last year, and came across this robed young man who looked like the most sickly individual you ever saw--pale, drawn, thin hair, sunken eyes, old before his time. He was a TERRIBLE salesman for his "product", a book and associated apparatus for "colonic irrigation", a polite word for enema. Cleans the "toxins" out, you know. Now, I would never make a judgement on the contributions of colonic irrigation to health based on this one single observation of this poor, but enthusiastic guy-- unscientific, you know! -- /Steve Dyer {decvax,linus,ima,ihnp4}!bbncca!sdyer sdyer@bbnccv.ARPA
tjs@cbdkc1.UUCP ( Tom Stanions) (08/19/85)
> I would LOVE to know what problems constipation causes. I can only imagine > the toxins which build up! In my own perverse way, I sometime enjoy going > to shows like the "Whole Life Expo" which is held regularly in Boston. > For those of you unfamilar with these shows, they are EXACTLY like > computer fairs, but the vendors sell health. I turned down one aisle last > year, and came across this robed young man who looked like the most > sickly individual you ever saw--pale, drawn, thin hair, sunken eyes, > old before his time. He was a TERRIBLE salesman for his "product", a > book and associated apparatus for "colonic irrigation", a polite word > for enema. Cleans the "toxins" out, you know. Now, I would never make > a judgement on the contributions of colonic irrigation to health based > on this one single observation of this poor, but enthusiastic guy-- > unscientific, you know! > -- > /Steve Dyer > {decvax,linus,ima,ihnp4}!bbncca!sdyer > sdyer@bbnccv.ARPA How about cancer? Diverticulitis? Autointoxication? Arthritis? Let me suggest an excellent book for you to reference: "TISSUE CLEANSING THROUGH BOWEL MANAGEMENT" by Bernerd Jensen D.C., Nutritionist. You will also discover some amazing problems caused by constipation if you study iridology. As for your experience at the Health Show I agree that it is a place to use caution, but your accessment of the salesperson shows a great deal of narrow-mindedness. Few people turn to healthful methods of treatment until after they have had a near death experience with the current medical community. It is possible that this person had such an experience and his condition is a result of that experience, and as is often the case the damage done is permanent. This same person may have been returned to his current state through the use of whatever he was selling, this would account for his enthusiasm. Your knowledge of colonics is appalling but consistent with the knowledge of such things by doctors. Enema: A prepared solution is introduced into the lower bowels for the purpose of stimulating a bowel movement. Colema: A prepared solution is introduced into the bowel and allowed to flow freely for ~20 minutes. This is not meant to stimulate a bowel movement but rather to cleanse the bowel. Special equipment is required so that introduction of the fluid and removal of the fluid and any waste can pass at the same time. This is also sometimes called a high enema. Colonic: A prepared solution is introduced into the bowel under pressure, then the pressure is removed and an elimination phase occurs. This is repeated for a period of time, ~20 minutes. The intent of this procedure is to cleanse and exercise the bowel. With both the colonic and the colema a piece of glass or clear plastic pipe is available so that the waste can be observed. Both also usually require a second person as an operator and observer. {allegra|ihnp4}!cbdkc1!tjs
slb@drutx.UUCP (Sue Brezden) (08/20/85)
Tom Stanions' latest article is the funniest yet. It seems that
individual cases can be used as evidence for his methods, but they
can also be explained away--as in the case of the terrible looking
fellow selling enemas.
Then he follows with a truly disgusting description of some of the
most bizarre practices. This is from someone supposedly into "natural"
methods. I'm sure our ancesters evolved to need pressure enemas. :-)
I really didn't know whether to laugh, cry, or get sick. Boy, I
could hardly wait to train as an operator/observer for this! Sounds
like you have a lot of fun, Tom. (99 * :-)).
--
Sue Brezden
Real World: Room 1B17 Net World: ihnp4!drutx!slb
AT&T Information Systems
11900 North Pecos
Westminster, Co. 80234
(303)538-3829
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Your god may be dead, but mine aren't.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~tjs@cbdkc1.UUCP ( Tom Stanions) (08/22/85)
>Tom Stanions' latest article is the funniest yet. It seems that >individual cases can be used as evidence for his methods, but they >can also be explained away--as in the case of the terrible looking >fellow selling enemas. Where did I say this? I have always warned against sharlatins. My point was that the person who discribed this incident did not elaborate about how he got that way or his motives. When children see a fat person they make fun of them, as we grow older most of us learn to first ask "Does this person have a problem beyond their ability to control?" Only after we first ask these important questions can we judge another person. Before you can comment on that last sentence let me say that with most doctors I am sure that their motives are good, however, they are to narrow-minded and near-sighted to see the truth that lies before them. >Then he follows with a truly disgusting description of some of the >most bizarre practices. This is from someone supposedly into "natural" >methods. I'm sure our ancesters evolved to need pressure enemas. :-) Is this hard for you to accept? Physical therapy is one of the things that could always be performed with or without a doctor. I read of one case where a person who was dying of accute constipation was saved by a "backwoods" doctor who cut a reed like a straw and gave the person a pressure enema by taking the solution into his mouth and, using the reed, put it where it did the most good. I hope I didn't just discust you, visit the cancer section of your local hospital some day and maybe this won't sound so bad. >I really didn't know whether to laugh, cry, or get sick. Boy, I >could hardly wait to train as an operator/observer for this! Sounds >like you have a lot of fun, Tom. (99 * :-)). It is in fact a pleasure to do something good for yourself every now and then, think of the pleasure I receive from doing good things all the time. > Sue Brezden {allegra|ihnp4}!cbdkc1!tjs
edhall@randvax.UUCP (Ed Hall) (08/23/85)
with laxatives in general, since the chief absorptive functions of the large intestine are minerals and the water left by the rest of the digestive process; laxatives can disturb this process. In the case of colonics it is much worse, since the direction of absorption is reversed, and minerals are actually removed from the body (by the same mechanism of osmotic pressure that normally causes them to be absorbed). Repeated often enough, the result will be electrolyte imbalance, which can be life-threatening. (In fact, millions of people in the third world die of such imbalance each year--caused by diarrheal diseases and not colonics, of course, though the mechanism is similar.) This doesn't even mention the possibilities for disease transfer from this procedure. Several people died in the Denver area a few years back from amoebic dynsentery traced to a chiropractor's colonic machine. And there are occasional intestinal perforations and resulting peritonitis (which is also often deadly). As for ``enthusiasm'', well, bowel obsession is fairly common, even to the point of sexual fixation. I'm sure a scan through psychoanalytic literature will turn up lots of cases. So far as the sickly robed man in question we have no way of knowing, but I'd say that my suspicion--that he *caused* rather than cured his sickliness through his ``treatments''--is at least as likely as yours. -Ed Hall decvax!randvax!edhall P.S. I've been reading a book on the origins and use of magic--from a historical and psychoanalytical perspective--and it is giving me a better understanding of the ``magical thinking'' that many health- faddists engage in. The title is _Stolen_Lightning_, and unfortunately it is sitting at home or I'd include the author's name.