wws@ukma.UUCP (Bill Stoll) (09/01/85)
Steve Dyer is helping me make my point better than I could ever do it without him. THANK YOU STEVE---RA! RA! RA! I do not wish to spend my valuable time forcing information down his throat with a "goose stuffer". He would find a way to regurgitate it unexamined anyhow. I can guarantee that he has not read ONE of the references listed in the "Electromagnetic Smog" article. I was careful to not mention any article that was not based on research reported from the very conventional centers of learning he is so fond of referring to. Every single major leap forward in human understanding of how the universe works, flew in the face of the previous "known truths". Since the entire power structure has reached its position built on those truths, every major leap forward has been opposed with all the might that could be brought to bear by those who fear loss of that power. Fortunately, in every age, there is a small % of the population who care nothing for power and are unafraid to stand up and be counted in support of an unpopular new concept that works. Were it not for these "wierdos" we would still be hiding in the trees from the predators of the "cave man days". There is no one who has studied, and/or tried, any of the concepts I have placed on the net so far, who scoff any longer. Steve seems to be the kind of person who feels comfortable with the world as he understands it. Although, the angry derision he shows when anything is presented that "shakes his tree" seems a bit out of character for one who is interested in learning new things. The world is as it is. We live in this world according to what we know about what it is. Any thinking person will agree that there is much more we do not understand about the world than what we do. Nearly every major breakthrough has come from an intuitive leap instead of from the plodding (though necessary at times to provide the raw data upon which the intuitive leap is based) progress that plodding minds worship. I challenge ANYONE to read the articles (I have listed perhaps 1/20th of the references I have read on the subject & will be happy to provide the bibliography for most of those for a "stamped, self-addressed envelope),that I listed in the net.med article#960:"ELECTROMAGNETIC SMOG IS A HAZARD TO YOUR HEALTH", and come to a different conclusion than I have come to. I am ready to change my mind tomorrow. I'm sure that I will have to change my mind many times before I die--the day I stop learning I'll be dead. I would appreciate any feedback I can get. A key difference between Steve Dyer and myself is that I KNOW that I don't know it all. Steve hasn't found it out yet. ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT ELECTROMAGNETIC SMOG INTERFERES WITH IS THE "ELECTROMAGNETIC RESONENCE ENTRAINMENT OF THE BRAIN". Look out Steve, the smog monster may be influencing your thoughts! cbosgd!ukma!wws k -- Walt Stoll, MD, ABFP Founder, & Medical Director Holistic Medical Centre 1412 N. Broadway Lexington, Kentucky 40505
ark@alice.UucP (Andrew Koenig) (09/02/85)
> Every single major leap forward in human understanding of how the > universe works, flew in the face of the previous "known truths". I have seen this particular statement made by many people in many contexts. I am almost always then invited to draw the conclusion that because the particular idea that the present speaker is espousing flies in the face of present "known truths" that it must therefore be a "major leap forward in human understanding." This is, of course, an example of the elementary fallacy known as "reasoning from the converse."
sdyer@bbncc5.UUCP (Steve Dyer) (09/02/85)
> Steve Dyer is helping me make my point better than I could ever do it > without him. THANK YOU STEVE---RA! RA! RA! > > I do not wish to spend my valuable time forcing information down his > throat with a "goose stuffer". He would find a way to regurgitate it > unexamined anyhow. I can guarantee that he has not read ONE of the > references listed in the "Electromagnetic Smog" article. I was > careful to not mention any article that was not based on research > reported from the very conventional centers of learning he is so fond > of referring to. I'm a bit confused why Walt chooses to mention me in connection with his ELECTROMAGNETIC SMOG articles, since I passed up the chance to reply at length in an article. But, just now, I looked again at his so-called references, and found that none of them would satisfy the standards of controlled research: they might make interesting reading, they might point to someone doing some actual research, but none of them are reports of controlled, double-blind studies. Instead, we have a collection of mass-market paperbacks, a mass-mailing medical journal which does not purport to present research, and a convention whose sponsor's credentials are unknown to me. At the very least, not a persuasive group of references. Walt, I am very happy to debate you on the merits of your theories and beliefs, but this constant "voice crying in the wilderness against allopathic medicine" is getting tiresome. Why don't we just stick to matters which can be substantiated? Or for that matter, respond to the many of us who have taken issue with some of your more outrageous comments? How about telling us why you said "WHO'S LAUGHING NOW" after actually reading the Newsweek article on sugar? Or, maybe providing references to the research of the neuroanatomists who have shown that "SPINAL FLUID FLOWS TO THE TIP OF EACH NEURON"? I might point out that I certainly don't think I know it all, but I do discriminate between established scientific fact, reasonable assumptions based on fact, and wild speculation. -- /Steve Dyer {harvard,seismo}!bbnccv!bbncc5!sdyer sdyer@bbncc5.ARPA
sdyer@bbncc5.UUCP (Steve Dyer) (09/03/85)
> Every single major leap forward in human understanding of how the > universe works, flew in the face of the previous "known truths". > Since the entire power structure has reached its position built on > those truths, every major leap forward has been opposed with all the > might that could be brought to bear by those who fear loss of that > power. Having just returned from the bookstore, I couldn't resist quoting from Martin Gardner's introduction to his book, "Science: Good, Bad and Bogus", Discus/Avon, 1981. p. xiii: "We all know there have been occasions when top scientists ridiculed ideas that later proved to be sound. We all know that great scientists have held opinions, both in and out of their specialized fields, that turned out to be hopelessly wrong. Let us not waste time belaboring the obvious. Nor must we forget that for every example of a crank who later became a hero there were thousands of cranks who forever remained cranks. We must not forget that for every outcast theory raised to respectability by a scientific revolution there were thousands of crazy theories that permanently bit the dust." -- /Steve Dyer {harvard,seismo}!bbnccv!bbncc5!sdyer sdyer@bbncc5.ARPA
wws@ukma.UUCP (Bill Stoll) (09/05/85)
> Article 1129 of net.med: > Relay-Version: version B 2.10.3 alpha 4/3/85; site ukma.UUCP > Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site bbncc5.UUCP > Path: ukma!cbosgd!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!mit-eddie!think!harvard!bbnccv!bbncc5!sdyer > From: sdyer@bbncc5.UUCP (Steve Dyer) > Newsgroups: net.med, Steve Dyer has provided us with a priceless quote I have reprinted in its entirety below. I'm going to use my Macintosh graphics to blow it up in large fancy print and mount it in my waiting room at the Holistic Medical Centre. Steve's problem seems to be that he would sooner wait till there is no doubt in anyone's mind before he looks at it. I would sooner look at it and make up my own mind. Some people reach out for the gold ring--others must wait to have it placed on their finger. Both approaches are valid; people choose. I could have learned about this expanded way of looking at the world many years ago. I think the reason I didn't was that I was a lot like Steve: I wouldn't believe in anything unless I could sense it with one of the usually accepted human senses. Then the electron microscope was developed; and then the Nuclear-magnetic Scanner--I began to notice that the world really was put together as the quantum physicists said and not as my senses said. Once I passed that block the whole world began to look different. I still have a long way to go but at least I'm not afraid to look through the newly opened door. GIVE ME A CALL IN ABOUT 5 YEARS---I'LL STAND ON THE FOLLOWING QUOTE: > "We all know there have been occasions when top scientists ridiculed ideas > that later proved to be sound. We all know that great scientists have held > opinions, both in and out of their specialized fields, that turned out to > be hopelessly wrong. Let us not waste time belaboring the obvious. Nor > must we forget that for every example of a crank who later became a hero > there were thousands of cranks who forever remained cranks. We must not > forget that for every outcast theory raised to respectability by a > scientific revolution there were thousands of crazy theories that > permanently bit the dust." > -- > /Steve Dyer : ELECTROMAGNETIC SMOG---A challenge cbosgd!ukma!wws -- Walt Stoll, MD, ABFP Founder, & Medical Director Holistic Medical Centre 1412 N. Broadway Lexington, Kentucky 40505