werner@aecom.UUCP (Craig Werner) (08/03/85)
> Some week's ago, someone asked me, on the analogy that a mosquito is sort of > like a hypodermic needle, whether mosquitoes could transmit AIDS to people > not in the usual risk groups. My response was "Well, you can't rule it our, but it's not something I worry about." Perhaps the following can be much more reassuring: A mosquito is not so much like a hypodermic syringe injection as it is like a needle-stick. In the last four years, over 500 nurses, doctors, and med students have accidentally stuck themselves with needles while drawing blood from patient's with AIDS. All are being followed by the CDC. Not one of them has even turned Antibody-positive (which neccessarily precedes the disease, but which is not necessarily an obligate precursor of it.) I hope the above, which translates to "It ain't happened yet" is more reassuring than my first article. -- Craig Werner !philabs!aecom!werner "The world is just a straight man for you sometimes"
rjd@faron.UUCP (Robert DeBenedictis) (08/06/85)
I was just wondering. Do you think that snorting coke through the same rolled bill as the other guy is a wise idea? Talk about mucous membranes. What do you think? If I find myself in that situation, I think I'd use my own rolled bill. Am I being paranoid? 'S not there yet, Robert DeBenedictis
rob@ptsfa.UUCP (Rob Bernardo) (08/08/85)
In article <321@faron.UUCP> rjd@faron.UUCP (Robert DeBenedictis) writes: > >I was just wondering. Do you think that snorting coke through the >same rolled bill as the other guy is a wise idea? Talk about mucous >membranes. What do you think? If I find myself in that situation, I >think I'd use my own rolled bill. Am I being paranoid? I am replying just in case this is NOT a joke. No, you are not paranoid, just uninformed. Disclaimer: the following is not medical advice, I am not trained in medicine or health care. The following is merely my observation and opinion. I have been following very carefully the medical news as reported in the responsible gay press (mainly the New York Native). My hypothesis: you can only catch the AIDS virus if it gets DIRECTLY into your bloodstream. The evidence: 1. The virus has been found in the following bodily fluids: blood, semen, saliva, and perhaps others. 2. Anal intercourse is highly correlated with AIDS because during anal intercourse, the anal passage lining incurs microcuts into the blood-vessel rich tissue and the AIDS virus in the semen deposited there can get directly into the blood stream. 3. Sharing of needles is highly correlated with AIDS because remnants of the blood of one person is being injected into another. 4. Penile-vaginal intercourse is less correlated with ADIS than anal intercourse because the vaginal tissues are less fragile than the anal passage tissues. 5. Deep kissing seems to be relatively unrisky (but not completely so) because the "tainted" saliva of one of the kissers will not get directly into the blood stream of the other unless the latter has a cut or wound in her/his mouth. 6. There is no evidence that the disease can be caught from airborne viruses. -- +--------------+-------------------------------+ | Rob Bernardo | Pacific Bell | +--------------+ 2600 Camino Ramon, Room 4E700 | | 415-823-2417 | San Ramon, California 94583 | +--------------+-------------------------------+---------+ | ihnp4!ptsfa!rob | | {nsc,ucbvax,decwrl,amd,fortune,zehntel}!dual!ptsfa!rob | +--------------------------------------------------------+
hosking@convexs.UUCP (08/09/85)
> /* Written 12:32 pm Aug 3, 1985 by werner@aecom.UUCP in convexs:net.med */ > /* ---------- "AIDS Transmission (Addendum)" ---------- */ > In the last four years, over 500 nurses, doctors, and > med students have accidentally stuck themselves with needles while drawing > blood from patient's with AIDS. > > I hope the above, which translates to "It ain't happened yet" is > more reassuring than my first article. Not at all. In fact, it scares the hell out of me... They let people like THAT become doctors and nurses ???? :-) (I think...) Doug Hosking Convex Computer Corp. Richardson, TX {allegra, ihnp4, uiucdcs}!convex!convexs!hosking
abc@brl-tgr.ARPA (Brint Cooper ) (08/10/85)
In article <321@faron.UUCP> rjd@faron.UUCP (Robert DeBenedictis) writes: > >I was just wondering. Do you think that snorting coke through the >same rolled bill as the other guy is a wise idea? Talk about mucous >membranes. What do you think? If I find myself in that situation, I >think I'd use my own rolled bill. Am I being paranoid? > >'S not there yet, >Robert DeBenedictis Paranoid? No, just stupid. Why don't you just forget about the coke. Whom are you trying to impress, anyway. I, for one, don't think you're cute. Brint
peter@baylor.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (08/12/85)
> 5. Deep kissing seems to be relatively unrisky (but not completely so) because > the "tainted" saliva of one of the kissers will not get directly into > the blood stream of the other unless the latter has a cut or wound in > her/his mouth. What about stomach ulcers? -- Peter da Silva (the mad Australian) UUCP: ...!shell!neuro1!{hyd-ptd,baylor,datafac}!peter MCI: PDASILVA; CIS: 70216,1076
cab@druca.UUCP (BergerCA) (08/21/85)
I think it's unwise, yes. Primarily from the standpoint that finding oneself snorting coke at all is certain to take is toll sooner than AIDS. Charlie Berger ...!ihnp4!druca!cab
andrew@orca.UUCP (Andrew Klossner) (09/26/85)
[]
"There is only one black and white fact on which we'll both
agree: don't come into contact with the virus (exposure to
blood, semen and serus products) and you'll never have to worry
about AIDS."
There are now confirmed reports of men with no history of homosexual
contact contracting AIDS through oral sex with infected female
prostitutes.
One of the medical workers who poked him/herself with a needle used to
draw blood from an AIDS patient has come down with AIDS.
Sorry I can't provide references; this is drawn from conversation with
my internist, a person for whom I have a great deal of respect. He
believes that the number of AIDS cases will grow by many orders of
magnitude in the next few years, and that it may wipe out much of the
third world where sanitary conditions are bleak. His descriptions of
society after the plague becomes established sound like science fiction
post-holocaust stories (towns which become armed camps where strangers
may not enter, wholesale lynchings of homosexuals, mass hysteria).
Depressing.
-=- Andrew Klossner (decvax!tektronix!tekecs!andrew) [UUCP]
(tekecs!andrew.tektronix@csnet-relay) [ARPA]rooter@well.UUCP (Brian Mavrogeorge) (10/01/85)
UCP> Do -NOT- spread "facts" without substantiation. To do otherwise is to contribute to fear and oppression. The truth is that - *** There are absolutely no, repeat NO, AIDs case among any of the healthworkers involved with AIDs who were not themselves in high risk groups. In those cases, the medical experts believe the virus was contracted through sexual means and -not- repeat -not- through contact with the patient. That includes this "true" story which is being repeated nationwide about the guy who simply pricked his finger. *** Stop your story right in its tracks! Go back to your internist and ask for the substantiation! Find out how many other people this supposed "fact" was passed on to. Correct it whereever you hear it. Contact your local AIDs hotline for the Atlanta CDC for verification. Sorry to be so hot about it but we have -got- to stop dealing in rumors and supposed truths!
rjw@ptsfc.UUCP (Rod Williams) (10/03/85)
In article <1767@orca.UUCP> andrew@orca.UUCP (Andrew Klossner) writes: > >One of the medical workers who poked him/herself with a needle used to >draw blood from an AIDS patient has come down with AIDS. > This is NOT true! AIDS antibodies have been found in two health-care workers who accidentally stuck themselves as described above. Neither of these people belongs to any of the "high-risk" groups for AIDS. This does NOT mean that they have AIDS - it means they have been exposed to the virus. It is estimated that only about 10 percent of those exposed to the virus will actually "come down" with AIDS. -- rod williams | {ihnp4,dual}!ptsfa!ptsfc!rjw ------------------------------------------- pacific bell | san ramon | california
john@ur-tut.UUCP (John Gurian) (10/03/85)
> *** There are absolutely no, repeat NO, AIDs case among any of > the healthworkers involved with AIDs who were not themselves > in high risk groups. Sorry to confuse things even more, but there has been ONE documented case of a "health care professional" (to use the standard buzzword) who contracted AIDS by sticking him/herself with a needle used to draw blood from the patient. Actually, there have been rumors of a second such occurance in Britain, but nothing I'd stake my reputation on. Still, 1 out of 13,000 cases isn't a very high incidence (if anyone wants a reference to the incidence in question, mail to me and I'll go look it up). Incidentally, my mother is a social worker who regularly sees AIDS patients without bothering to gown up or wear masks or any of that other rubbish. John Gurian (rochester!ur-tut!john) University of Rochester School of Medicine
roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) (10/04/85)
> Sorry to confuse things even more, but there has been ONE documented case > of a "health care professional" (to use the standard buzzword) who > contracted AIDS by sticking him/herself with a needle used to draw blood > > John Gurian (rochester!ur-tut!john) That's a nice solid reference if I've ever heard one. Care to clue the rest of in on where you read that? You have to document it, not just say it's documented. -- Roy Smith <allegra!phri!roy> System Administrator, Public Health Research Institute 455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
steph@graffiti.UUCP (stephanie da silva) (10/09/85)
> > Sorry to confuse things even more, but there has been ONE documented case > > of a "health care professional" (to use the standard buzzword) who > > contracted AIDS by sticking him/herself with a needle used to draw blood > > > > That's a nice solid reference if I've ever heard one. Care to clue > the rest of in on where you read that? You have to document it, not just > say it's documented. > -- I read that in an issue of Time magazine a few weeks ago. If I remember right, it was a nurse in England who accidentally pricked herself with a contaminated needle. *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
rooter@well.UUCP (Brian Mavrogeorge) (10/09/85)
I agree with you lets have some citations. A recent article in the San Francisco Chronicle about aids quoted a spokesperson for the CDC in Atlanta as saying that they had followed over 400 health care workers who had come into close contact with body fluids from AIDs patients and that none of the workers showed evidence of the AIDs virus. That is why I got so uptight about the "my internist" reference. However one person sent me mail indicating that the Scientific American ran a story about infected health workers. I don't subscribe to that mag so if someone could look it up and post the quote I would appreciate it. And to the person who sent me mail from an "unverified terminal" (whatever that is) saying that I seem to feel that AIDs is only sexually transmitted - a loud no. I believe AIDs is transmitted through the exchange of body fluids, e.g. blood and semen. And I rely upon researchers and CDC studies and reports for my information and not vague references to unnamed sources. I don't mind messages calling me to task for something, but at least do in some fashion so I can respond to you via the mail.
leiby@masscomp.UUCP (Mike Leibensperger) (10/10/85)
Could someone post local area AIDS information line telephone numbers?
Let's get ourselves some of thet thar substantiated information 'n'
documentated evidence, eh?
(I'm posting this net wide since it's a good idea for everyone to have
this info, but if you are posting phone numbers it's probably best to
post to the most local news distribution.)
--
Rt. Rev. Mike Leibensperger, Archbishop of Chelmsford
Church of St. Clint the Righteous ("Feel lucky, Pink Boy?")
Masscomp; 1 Technology Park; Westford, MA 01886
{decvax,ihnp4,tektronix}!masscomp!leibywerner@aecom.UUCP (Craig Werner) (10/10/85)
Currently there are 500 health workers in the US being followed by the
CDC after needle sticks in the US. Not one has yet developed AIDS, or AIDS-
related complex (ARC). Of those tested, none has tested Antibody Positive
for HTLV-3.
There are about a dozen cases of health workers getting AIDS in the
United States, but these people all turned out to have other risk factors, so
probably didn't get AIDS through work.
The oft-cited case of the English nurse who injected herself with
a substantial amount of arterial blood from an AIDS patient was no normal
needle stick. She developed generalized Lymphadenopathy several weeks after
the incident, which later got better. I have not seen any antibody data to
determine whether she was actually infected by HTLV-3 (also called LAV - for
Lymphadenopathy Virus). However, even though this is a symptom of AIDS and
ARC, several other things can cause it, and in the absence of the data, one
can't say she ever had AIDS at all.
The heterosexual transmission of the disease seems to be much more
facile from men to women than from women to men. I swear I saw a reference
that said that only 2 cases in NY are definitely ascribed to female-to-male
heterosexual contact (ruling out IV drug abuse - which transmits female-to-
male quite well.) However I can't find it now, but I remember being incredulous
at the time.
No known cases are ascribed to transmission by the virus in saliva
or tears. For one, it is in those fluids in very small amounts, and in only
a small minority of people with AIDS.
There is no case of a child catching AIDS from its mother after the
first month of life (and that wording just hedges on the fact that it is
probably an infection in-utero). That is probably the best indication of
the virus' relative non-infectability.
--
Craig Werner
!philabs!aecom!werner
"What do you expect? Watermelons are out of season!"john@ur-tut.UUCP (John Gurian) (10/10/85)
> That's a nice solid reference if I've ever heard one. Care to clue > the rest of in on where you read that? You have to document it, not just > say it's documented. Alright already. Try looking in the March 24, 1984 issue of The Lancet, page 676 (Vol 1 No. 8378), for a letter entitled "AIDS in a hospital worker". Further references to CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports (MMWR) concerning the evaluation of reported cases of AIDS in health care professionals are cited following the letter. Hoping you a happy and fruitful search through you local hospital library, John Gurian (seismo!rochester!ur-tut!john) University of Rochester School of Medicine
hga@mit-eddie.UUCP (Harold Ancell) (10/11/85)
For up to date (30 Aug 85) information on AIDS in a reasonably avaliable source, people should read "The Epidemiology of AIDS: Current Status and Future Prospects" by J.M. Curran et al., in the 27 Sept 85 issue of _Science_. The authors are with the Centers for Disease Control, and the article seems to cover the subject very well; it includes ~ 47 references. On the subject of cases of AIDS in the U.S. among health care workers the authors say that as of 24 May 85, 371 (3.5%) of reported AIDS case were in health care workers. All but 31 (8.4%) belonged to know risk groups. Of these cases "no specific occupational exposures could be documented." The nurse in England who got stuck and exposed to the blood of an AIDS patient developed HTLV-III/LAV antibody 27 to 45 days after exposure, and this "was accompanied by lymphadenopathy and fever, consistant with the acute symptoms described with HTLV-III/LAV." The article describes studies of medical personal exposed to blood and other body fluids of AIDS patients, none of whom developed antibodies, and says the risk appears to be small. - Harold
flaps@utcs.uucp (Alan J Rosenthal) (10/14/85)
Okay now. It appears quite definite from all these postings here that that case with that nurse resulted not from a 'needle-stick' but from an accidental injection of a SUBSTANTIAL amount of ARTERIAL blood, being that no one has said anything which directly contradicts this. Would someone care to either find a reference which denies this, or finally admit that simple needle-sticks are not sufficient to transmit aids.
rrizzo@bbncca.ARPA (Ron Rizzo) (10/16/85)
Andrew Klossner's internist seems to be suffering from a particularly bad case of AIDS anxiety.
ron@brl-sem.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (10/17/85)
> Okay now. It appears quite definite from all these postings here that that > case with that nurse resulted not from a 'needle-stick' but from an > accidental injection of a SUBSTANTIAL amount of ARTERIAL blood, being that > no one has said anything which directly contradicts this. Would someone > care to either find a reference which denies this, or finally admit that > simple needle-sticks are not sufficient to transmit aids. I have no idea on how to apply this to the AIDS situation, but I wouldn't downplay the problems with needle sticks. Getting stuck with a used needle can cause serious problems. One of my coworkers got a severe infection after accidentally poking herself with a needle from a cardiac arrest case. Health care professionals here insist on treatment after sticks from used needles. -Ron
beth@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (JB) (10/19/85)
[G'head, eat me, I Love it] From: werner@aecom.UUCP (Craig Werner), Message-ID: <1937@aecom.UUCP>: >The heterosexual transmission of the disease seems to be much more facile >from men to women than from women to men. I swear I saw a reference that >said that only 2 cases in NY are definitely ascribed to female-to-male >heterosexual contact. However I can't find it now, but I remember being >incredulous at the time. No need to be incredulous. Most fellows couldn't inspire bodily fluids from a woman if their whatevers depended on it. ...oh yeah, netiquette, almost forgot: :-) -- --JB (Beth Christy, U. of Chicago, ..!ihnp4!gargoyle!sphinx!beth) "What if the after-effect of the terrible bomb is unusual beyond belief? Wouldn't you rather the whole population had listened to somebody like the old Indian chief?" (The Roches)
wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (10/22/85)
In article <916@utcs.uucp> flaps@utcs.UUCP (Alan J Rosenthal) writes: >Okay now. It appears quite definite from all these postings here that that >case with that nurse resulted not from a 'needle-stick' but from an >accidental injection of a SUBSTANTIAL amount of ARTERIAL blood, being that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ?* >no one has said anything which directly contradicts this. Would someone >care to either find a reference which denies this, or finally admit that >simple needle-sticks are not sufficient to transmit aids. * I can understand accidental needle-sticks -- I've cut and poked myself enough to realize that even professionals trained to handle sharp instruments will have accidents with them. However, can someone explain how THIS happened? The only scenario I can come up with is that someone carrying a hypo full of blood fell down, and managed both to stick themselves in falling and also depress the plunger to inject themselves, rather than breaking off the needle or smashing the hypo (both of which seem more likely). Anybody have any detailed explanation? Will Martin UUCP/USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin or ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA
scott@cdp.UUCP (10/22/85)
> No need to be incredulous. Most fellows couldn't inspire bodily fluids > from a woman if their whatevers depended on it. Not knowing what `inspire' means, and only having a shitty dictionary at hand, I can only guess that the definition you're using is either a) "stimulate to activity" -- sad but true, or b) "inhale" (or maybe ingest in some other fashion) Anyway, could you (or someone) elaborate on ways in which AIDS is acquired from women? Also, I just realized that I know that AIDS can be transmitted via semen or blood, but I don't know how such fluids must contact or be ingested by the recipient. For example, I would guess that AIDS could be transmitted in menstrual fluids (can it also be found in non-blood vaginal secretions?), but I don't know if it can be transmitted to a person by bodily contact, or by oral sex. Scott Weikart Community Data Processing: 415-322-9069 {ihnp4,decvax,ucbvax,cbosgd,hao,purdue,duke,...}!hplabs!cdp!scott