levy@ttrdc.UUCP (Daniel R. Levy) (11/10/85)
In article <832@psivax.UUCP>, friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) writes: >In article <2336@ukma.UUCP> wws@ukma.UUCP (Bill Stoll) writes: >>First: I made no "factual error" about cavities. >>Second: I stand by the statement that "positive (outward) flow >>through the microtubules can arrest decay of and even regenerate tooth >>enamel". >>> To set the facts straight: Enamel is ground substance - it is >>> extracellular. Microtubules are intracellular, ergo, enamel contains no >>> microtubules. Two, microtubules are structures, not pipes, nothing flows >>> through them, only along them , and then, only inside cells, >>> it being very energy intensive. Three, enamel is made from the inside out >>> by cells called ameloblasts. These are stripped away when the tooth erupts >>> and no more enamel can ever be made. >> There are at least a >>dozen observed phenomena that cannot be explained by Craig's paradigm; >>all of which are explained by the newer theories I tried to share with >>him in our "private correspondence". It seems he could not cope with >>the new info. > As a scientist who is willing to adjust my models on the basis >of real data, could you please provide more information. In particular: > 1) What are these phenomena not explained by the std model? > 2) What evidence is there for microtubules in teeth? > 3) What evidence relates microtubular flow to enamel formation? >>My question exactly. Who are you going to believe? > I believe the evidence, I have seen none as yet. >>regeneration of tooth enamel via microtubular flow was proven >10m >>years ago when fluorescent antibody research could be combined with >>radioactive tracer technology. > References please! Also a summary of the results would be nice. > Sarima (Stanley Friesen) May I add my question, too (addressed to both the holistic and non-holistic sides of the fence). I have seen toothpaste ads for fluoride toothpastes that say that the fluoride can help "weak places" on the tooth regenerate. If the tooth can't produce new enamel, how does that happen? And in any case, if topically applied fluoride is supposed to be good for teeth, doesn't it have to soak in somehow through the enamel coating? I don't know about "micro- tubules" but this might seem to imply that the enamel IS porous. -- ------------------------------- Disclaimer: The views contained herein are | dan levy | yvel nad | my own and are not at all those of my em- | an engihacker @ | ployer or the administrator of any computer | at&t computer systems division | upon which I may hack. | skokie, illinois | -------------------------------- Path: ..!ihnp4!ttrdc!levy
wws@ukma.UUCP (Bill Stoll) (11/17/85)
Dear Stanley, The references you are interested in about the enamel and microtubules have been done at Loma Linda University. The first studies were done n the 1960's by a Dr. Ralph Steinmann. To the "knee-jerk scoffers": if the body metabolism has no effect on the "inert enamel once deposited" why does the incidence of caries suddenly decrease dramatically at about the age of 20 years? Also, why does the incidence of caries increase dramatically during pregnancy unless sufficient calcium is ingested? Perhaps sugar intake, and dental hygeine habits, are suddenly altered at those times? "Come on, gimmee a break!" To the question about the fluoride: I don't know the mechanism but the holistic paradigm fits what is observed more easily than the 19th century "facts" some people feel more comfortable with. -- cbosgd!ukma!wws(Walt Stoll) YOU Walt Stoll, MD, ABFP Founder & Medical Director ARE MORE Holistic Medical Centre 1412 North Broadway Lexington, Kentucky 40505 THAN YOU THINK (606) 233-4273
levy@ttrdc.UUCP (Daniel R. Levy) (11/19/85)
In article <2381@ukma.UUCP>, wws@ukma.UUCP (Bill Stoll) writes: >Dear Stanley, > >The references you are interested in about the enamel and microtubules >have been done at Loma Linda University. The first studies were done >n the 1960's by a Dr. Ralph Steinmann. >To the "knee-jerk scoffers": if the body metabolism has no effect on >the "inert enamel once deposited" why does the incidence of caries >suddenly decrease dramatically at about the age of 20 years? Also, >why does the incidence of caries increase dramatically during >pregnancy unless sufficient calcium is ingested? Perhaps sugar >intake, and dental hygeine habits, are suddenly altered at those >times? "Come on, gimmee a break!" >To the question about the fluoride: I don't know the mechanism but the >holistic paradigm fits what is observed more easily than the 19th >century "facts" some people feel more comfortable with. >-- >cbosgd!ukma!wws(Walt Stoll) YOU >Walt Stoll, MD, ABFP Gee, I had always heard that acid-forming bacteria in the mouth were the reason (or at least a necessary factor) for tooth decay, and had also heard it theorized that the growth of these bacteria were inhibited somehow in people who suddenly have a much lower rate of tooth decay when reaching adulthood. This would obviously be a reason for a lowering/raising of tooth decay rates. Can anyone name someone who has tested this (the tooth-decay bacterial presence in the mouth during times of high cavity vulnerability and of low cavity vulnerability)? These bacteria supposedly live on food particles in the mouth, not on munched up tooth enamel, which is destroyed as a side effect only, and it would be plausible to suggest that certain substances in saliva might discourage their growth. There was talk about a "tooth decay vaccine" on this principle, but it apparently has not yet come very far. I'm SURPRISED that you have little to say on fluoride. (Or do you discourage fluoride use as possibly harmful and thus don't consider much of its effect on tooth decay? There is some debate on this matter, I hear--too much can be harmful to the nervous system, etc., etc.) I really expected to get a DEEP point of view from the holistic side on this one (and have heard zilch from the conventional-medicine people--where ARE you??? Speak up and be heard, for perchance the holistics rave with over abandon!). -- ------------------------------- Disclaimer: The views contained herein are | dan levy | yvel nad | my own and are not at all those of my em- | an engihacker @ | ployer or the administrator of any computer | at&t computer systems division | upon which I may hack. | skokie, illinois | -------------------------------- Path: ..!ihnp4!ttrdc!levy