dudek@utai.UUCP (Gregory Dudek) (01/18/86)
Regarding the current discussion of hangovers & methanol: I know
that alcoholic drinks containing methanol was a big problem during
the prohibition days. What I am curious about was whether the
methanol was (and is) produced accidentally during fermentation (i.e.
is there any risk of methanol production during home wine making?), or
was the methanol added via some other pathway?
Greg Dudek.
--
Dept. of Computer Science (vision group) University of Toronto
Usenet: {linus, ihnp4, allegra, decvax, floyd}!utcsri!dudek
CSNET: dudek@Toronto
ARPA: dudek%Toronto@CSNet-Relaywa371@sdcc12.UUCP (Bernd Riechelmann) (01/22/86)
> Regarding the current discussion of hangovers & methanol: I know > that alcoholic drinks containing methanol was a big problem during > the prohibition days. What I am curious about was whether the > methanol was (and is) produced accidentally during fermentation (i.e. > is there any risk of methanol production during home wine making?), or > was the methanol added via some other pathway? It is my understanding that methanol can be produced accidentally when something goes wrong with the fermentation. This happened to some people in our village in Europe during the Second World War. As I remember it, methanol caused blindness, among other nasty things. I also remember that these people had borrowed a zinc plated wash tub from my mother to hold the fermenting mash, and when they brought it back, all the zinc had been eaten away on the inside of the tub, so that the rusting iron underneath was laid bare, ruining the tub. Bernd <bear-nd> UUCP: ...!ucbvax!sdcsvax!sdcc12!wa371, ARPA: sdcsvax!sdcc12!wa371@nosc
larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (01/23/86)
> Regarding the current discussion of hangovers & methanol: I know > that alcoholic drinks containing methanol was a big problem during > the prohibition days. What I am curious about was whether the > methanol was (and is) produced accidentally during fermentation (i.e. > is there any risk of methanol production during home wine making?), or > was the methanol added via some other pathway? Methanol is not a normal fermentation product. I believe that the methanol problem during Prohibition resulted from the intentional adulteration of "rather precious" ethanol with unregulated and easily obtained methanol to increase final product quantity yield. I don't believe there is any methanol production risk during home wine-making endeavors. ==> Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York <== ==> UUCP {decvax|dual|rocksanne|rocksvax|watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry <== ==> VOICE 716/741-9185 {rice|shell}!baylor!/ <== ==> FAX 716/741-9635 {G1, G2, G3 modes} duke!ethos!/ <== ==> seismo!/ <== ==> "Have you hugged your cat today?" ihnp4!/ <==
larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (01/25/86)
> > Regarding the current discussion of hangovers & methanol: I know > > that alcoholic drinks containing methanol was a big problem during > > the prohibition days. What I am curious about was whether the > > methanol was (and is) produced accidentally during fermentation (i.e. > > is there any risk of methanol production during home wine making?), or > > was the methanol added via some other pathway? > > It is my understanding that methanol can be produced accidentally > when something goes wrong with the fermentation. I don't believe that methanol can be produced by any fermentation process used for alcoholic beverage production. In this process, sugar is broken down to form pyruvates, which in turn are acted upon by the enzyme pyruvate decarboxylase to form acetaldehyde and CO2; the acetaldehyde being reduced through alcohol dehydrogenase to form ethanol. I don't see how methanol can be formed based upon this chemistry. > This happened to some people in our village in Europe during the Second World > War. As I remember it, methanol caused blindness, among other > nasty things. I also remember that these people had borrowed a > zinc plated wash tub from my mother to hold the fermenting mash, and > when they brought it back, all the zinc had been eaten away on the > inside of the tub, so that the rusting iron underneath was laid bare, > ruining the tub. It sounds to me like the blindness was caused by heavy metal poisoning, and not methanol. In particular, lead poisoning has been a problem with "moonshine" for many years, and bootleg whiskey made during Prohibition. The lead was introduced through solder used in the distillation apparatus. Lead poisoning has many nasty effects, including "retinal stippling" where the lead actually deposits on the retina of the eye. ==> Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York <== ==> UUCP {decvax|dual|rocksanne|rocksvax|watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry <== ==> VOICE 716/741-9185 {rice|shell}!baylor!/ <== ==> FAX 716/741-9635 {G1, G2, G3 modes} duke!ethos!/ <== ==> seismo!/ <== ==> "Have you hugged your cat today?" ihnp4!/ <==
gt3191b@gitpyr.UUCP (01/26/86)
>> Regarding the current discussion of hangovers & methanol: I know >> that alcoholic drinks containing methanol was a big problem during >> the prohibition days. What I am curious about was whether the >> methanol was (and is) produced accidentally during fermentation (i.e. >> is there any risk of methanol production during home wine making?), or >> was the methanol added via some other pathway? > >It is my understanding that methanol can be produced accidentally >when something goes wrong with the fermentation. This happened to >some people in our village in Europe during the Second World War. >As I remember it, methanol caused blindness, among other >nasty things. I also remember that these people had borrowed a >zinc plated wash tub from my mother to hold the fermenting mash, and >when they brought it back, all the zinc had been eaten away on the >inside of the tub, so that the rusting iron underneath was laid bare, >ruining the tub. I didn't think this sounded right, so .... I decided to ask a CHE friend of mine, who looked it up in one of his "magic books" and it seems that while the addition of zinc WAS very dangerous, it must be subjected to high temperature AND pressure to react with the carbon in the alcohol (to make methanol). Much more likely, your villiagers had problems with zinc poisoning (sp?) or, like most of those who had problems with methanol poisoning during prohibition, someone added the methanol (wood alcohol) at some point, not knowing that it was poisinous. (Most probably, even by accident!) By the way, the signs of methanol poisoning include blindness as well as loss of motor control -- sounds like fun :-). Unfortunately, according to my CHE wizard, methanol is much easier to distill large quantities than the ethanol that you and I fry our brain cells in on occations (like sunset, or the power company making money!) On a final (we can hope) note, it is SUPPOSED to be very difficult to procure high purity, REAL grain alcohol (ethanol) in this country due to federal regulation. For this reason, I wouldn't reccommend drinking ANY alcohol I got from a lab. Stop drinking such cheap liquor, and you'll be surprised at how much better you feel the morning after! :-) thanx, -- McAllister, Daniel G. 1986: Football Basketball PO Box 33191 Tech 20 89 Georgia Insitute of Technology UGa 16 65 Atlanta Georgia, 30332 "SILENCE IS GOLDEN" ...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!gt3191b