doug@terak.UUCP (Doug Pardee) (02/21/86)
[I have no desire to rekindle the vitamin debate, but...]
I'm looking for some plausible explanation for a personal experience.
The situation has happened twice, and I'm fairly confident that there is
a cause and effect. But I don't understand the mechanism.
Summary: A depressed mood which has lasted for weeks is "cured" in less
than two hours after taking a "stress formula" vitamin supplement.
Boring details: On two occasions (a couple of years apart), I have been
depressed for weeks at a time. This is very uncharacteristic of me;
seldom do I carry one day's emotions forward into the next day. In both
cases I was in a situation which was depressing but not at all hopeless.
It shouldn't really have caused the kind of relentless depression that I
was experiencing.
The first time, the depression had lasted for nearly 3 months when it
occurred to me that the depressing situation could also be labelled as
"stressful". Since I'm not a health nut and I "don't always eat right"
as the TV commercials say, I figured it wouldn't be a bad idea to start
taking a vitamin supplement on general principles. Within a couple of
hours after I took the first tablet, my mood had improved remarkably.
I continued using the supplement until the depressing/stressful
situation abated.
The second time, it only took one month of depression before I
recognized the similarity (hey, when you're depressed you don't always
think straight :-). About an hour and a half after taking the first
tablet, the cloud had lifted. The change was so quick and so dramatic
that I find it hard to believe it could be the vitamins. But I don't
have any other theory.
Okay, folks, I'm asking for help understanding what's going on. Is it
one of the vitamins in the supplement (basically B complex, C and folic
acid, and E), or is it probably placebo effect, or something else? And
more important, should I be doing anything more than continuing to take
the supplements?
Possible red herring: my father was an alcoholic ("was" on account of
it finally killed him). I don't drink, never have. One person I know
suggested that this might be a clue.
Extra Credit: what am I excreting that causes my urine to become a
fluorescent green-yellow color when I'm using those supplements?
--
Doug Pardee -- CalComp -- {hardy,savax,seismo,decvax,ihnp4}!terak!dougjin@hropus.UUCP (Jerry) (02/22/86)
Answer to extra credit: Riboflavin (Vitamin B2). It means you are
taking too much (common reaction to high dose vitamin suppliments).
My *guess* is that the Thiamine (Vitamin B1) and/or Niacin ("another
B Vitamin") are lifting your mood. 50 mg of either should be a good
test. Be careful taking B vitamins, over-doing them can cause
deficiencies in the ones you are not taking.
Jerry Natowitz
ihnp4!houxm!hropus!jin
The Master Bakerdyer@spdcc.UUCP (Steve Dyer) (02/23/86)
> Extra Credit: what am I excreting that causes my urine to become a > fluorescent green-yellow color when I'm using those supplements? Riboflavin is excreted when taken to excess, and imparts a bright-yellow color to the urine. As for the depression, who knows? I wouldn't ascribe as much to the vitamins as to a placebo effect, but why argue with success? I'd recommend seeing a doctor if these depressive symptoms recur with any frequency or severity. -- Steve Dyer dyer@harvard.HARVARD.EDU {bbncca,bbnccv,harvard}!spdcc!dyer
jcp@osiris.UUCP (Jody Patilla) (02/23/86)
> > Extra Credit: what am I excreting that causes my urine to become a > > fluorescent green-yellow color when I'm using those supplements? > > Riboflavin is excreted when taken to excess, and imparts a bright-yellow > color to the urine. As for the depression, who knows? I wouldn't > ascribe as much to the vitamins as to a placebo effect, but why argue > with success? I'd recommend seeing a doctor if these depressive symptoms > recur with any frequency or severity. A niacin deficiency can cause a person to exhibit rather erratic or depressed behavior. I've mostly heard of this happening to older folks who are taking lots of medications and not eating right, but I suppose that if you eating an extreme hacker-type diet, heavy in Pepsi and M&M's and not getting enough B vitamins, you could also have this problem. -- jcpatilla ..{seismo,allegra}!umcp-cs!aplcen!osiris!jcp Look for beauty in all things; let the fountains of delight refresh your heart.
medley@uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU (02/24/86)
Adult children of alcoholics are more likely to have episodes of depression tan other folks. If vitamins help you, great. But if you are in the middle of a depression and feel that you have never satisfactorily worked through the problems caused by your unhappy childhood, there is help available. Alcoholics Anonymous has groups for families of alcoholics (Al-Anon), teenaged children of alcoholics (Ala-Teen), and now there are groups forming for adult children of alcoholics. The latter are particularly good for those in the situation described. The parent(s) are probably dead, possibly for many years, and much of the conversation in the other groups is geared to dealing with a current situation. In the adult - child - of groups, the emphasis is on the individual, and how to overcome the lasting personality traits we have been left with. Two of the most important things are realizing that these traits are more the rule than the exception in adult children of alcoholics (i.e. WE ARE NOT ALONE), and that there are effective ways to learn to deal with your life in spite of whatever may have happened to you. Most AA chapters have phone numbers in the front pages of local phone books with other important service.
john@ur-tut.UUCP (John Gurian) (03/02/86)
> The second time, it only took one month of depression before I > recognized the similarity (hey, when you're depressed you don't always > think straight :-). About an hour and a half after taking the first > tablet, the cloud had lifted. The change was so quick and so dramatic > that I find it hard to believe it could be the vitamins. But I don't > have any other theory. Sorry to be so late with a reply. First the vitamin stuff: my guess would be placebo, but I have no idea, really. Pellegra, caused by niacin deficiency, would more likely cause dementia then depression, along with other symptoms (GI stuff/diarrhea, for instance), especially in the relatively young. Now, for a soap box on depression: A psychiatrist I know is fond of saying, "if schizophrenia doesn't get me (lifetime incidence, 1%), depression will". That's because the lifetime incidence of a major depressive episode has been estimated as high as 30% - that is nearly one-third of the population will get hit at one point or another. Depression favors women 2:1 over men. Often times, it may be due to loss of a spouse, etc., and the person recovers without seeking help. Unfortunately, many others do not, given the fact that everyone ridicules psychiatrists (except while they're in therapy!). I would urge anyone who has been feeling blue for awhile, and exhibits any of the "vegetative signs" of depression (sleeping problems, lack of interest in hobbies/sex, weight loss, GI disturbances) to seek a professional. Unfortunately, many family doctors do not pick up on a patient's hints that he is depressed, or if he does, just tries to treat it with an antidepressant, which only helps the vegetative signs and not the patient's mood and underlying feelings. This is somewhat unrelated, but I should add: if you or a family member needs to undergo ECT (electroconvulsive, electroshock therapy), you should know that it is very safe, and the most effective means we have for treating severe depression. The Phil Donohue Show to the contrary, most people who undergo it found it very helpful, and would do it again if necessary. -- -- John Gurian -- !rochester!ur-tut!john
dyer@harvard.UUCP (Steve Dyer) (03/03/86)
>This is somewhat unrelated, but I should add: if you >or a family member needs to undergo ECT (electroconvulsive, electroshock >therapy), you should know that it is very safe, and the most effective means >we have for treating severe depression. The Phil Donohue Show to the >contrary, most people who undergo it found it very helpful, and would do it >again if necessary. A relative of mine began having severe depressive episodes a few years ago which were resistant to drug therapy, and a course of ECT was prescribed. Needless to say, the change was dramatic: within a short time he was "his old self" again, much to the relief of his wife and children. It's a shame that movies like "Cuckoos' Nest" still govern the public image of ECT. Of course, it doesn't resemble that at all. The patient is given a general anesthetic and a muscle relaxant, and an electric stimulus sufficient to produce a convulsion is administered via two electrodes on the scalp. The "convulsion" is seen only on the EEG because of the anesthetic and muscle relaxant. There are no side-effect other than a mild amnesia for recent events which fades after a few weeks. For severely depressed people, it is MUCH safer than drug therapy because it works rapidly, there is no occasion for overdosage, and the side-effects of anti-depressant drugs are avoided. I guess it STILL sounds a little barbaric, because it it is such a gross insult to a very complex organ, and it was developed back when empiricism was the order of the day. Back then, it was used for all sorts of mental illnesses, and it is only serendipity and clinical observation which revealed its effectiveness in severe depressions. Strangely enough, we still have no idea why it works, and works so well. -- /Steve Dyer dyer@harvard.harvard.edu harvard!dyer