jin@hropus.UUCP (Bear) (03/09/86)
*** REPLACE YOUR MIND WITH THIS LINE *** My health club has been hawking the Unipro line of nutritional supplements for some time now. I finally decided to ive them a try. I bought what is called Creatine 1500. For a pittence ($17) (:-) I got 90 tablets to be taken three at a time 45 minutes before a workout. What they are supposed to do is increase the efficiency of fat metabolism during high workload resulting in a favoring of fat metabolism over protein metabolism after the glycogen stores are depleted (this is not documented, this is the say so of the sales force). I tryed them, and lo and behold, my CV endurence has been increasing at a faster rate than before (I measure CV endurence semi-quantitatively by seeing how much work I can do (how many sets at what weight, 15 reps each, Universal machines) without causing my pulse to exceed my target rate). I suppose a that could be a placebo effect but after checking the ingrediants carefully (and those of another product) I'm wondering if there isn't at least a little drug effect here. The first bit of evidence was another suppliment containing N,N-dimethyl glycine. Couldn't find it in my Merck Index but did find two dimethylated amino acid derivatives that are psych- active N,N-dimethyl trypamaine (DMT on the street) and N,N-dimethyl tyrosine (never heard of it as a street drug). DMT, for those who never heard of it, is a short acting (45 -120 minute) hallucinogen. The tyromine derivative was decribed as sympathomimetic. Now realise that these two drugs differ from the glycine derivative in two respects: 1) They are aromatic and 2) They are decarboxalated. But I'm still suspicious because those who use them (I wouldn't because it would defeat the purpose of the antihypertensive I take) report a *very* "speedy" effect. Getting back to Creatine 1500: Ingredients include a few amino acids, 50 mg B6, 25 mg each of Niacinamide and Niacin (on an empty stomach they do cause transient skin flush, this is not placebo because I was not aware of the Niacin first time I took them), Creatine Phosphate (1500 ug) described in Merck as an antifatigue agent and 500 mg of "herbs" (Capsicum, Ginseng, Gotu Kola, and Hawthorn). Don't know what Gotu Kola is, don't think the Ginseng does much, Capsicum just upsets my stomach, but Hawthorne berries (listed as Crategus) are descibed as having been used as a cardiac tonic and as a coronary vasodialator. Aside from the obvious (a doctor who medicates him/her self... let alone a non-doctor) what does anyone know about these products? -- Jerry Natowitz ihnp4!houxm!hropus!jin (official) ihnp4!opus!jin (temporary) Institute for the Study of Non-existent Phenomena
dyer@spdcc.UUCP (Steve Dyer) (03/11/86)
I performed a quick literature search on Beth Israel's PaperChase service on Compuserve this evening, just to see what these compounds really were. > The first bit of evidence was another suppliment containing > N,N-dimethyl glycine. Couldn't find it in my Merck Index but > did find two dimethylated amino acid derivatives that are psych- > active N,N-dimethyl trypamaine (DMT on the street) and N,N-dimethyl > tyrosine (never heard of it as a street drug). DMT, for those who > never heard of it, is a short acting (45 -120 minute) hallucinogen. > The tyromine derivative was decribed as sympathomimetic. > > Now realise that these two drugs differ from the glycine derivative > in two respects: 1) They are aromatic and 2) They are decarboxalated. > But I'm still suspicious because those who use them (I wouldn't because > it would defeat the purpose of the antihypertensive I take) report > a *very* "speedy" effect. N,N-dimethyl glycine wouldn't be expected to be a hallucinogen or sympathomimetic. It is usually found in quack nostrums under the slightly more respectable-sounding name, "pangamic acid", a vitamoid. The scanty literature I can find on it indicates a few things: It probably, like its trimethylated counterpart, betaine, participates as a methyl donor in tetrahydrofolate methylation reactions. There was some evidence in animals that it had anticonvulsant properties, but tests in human subjects with epilepsy came up negative. I saw an intriguing abstract reporting that it seemed to demonstrate immunoadjuvant properties in a single study of its use in infections disease. Finally, there was a caution that it, when taken with dietary nitrates and nitrites, may be mutagenic. Not a whole lot to go on; it sounds to me like one of those chemicals in search of a disease: I'm surprised that it can be sold as a supplement. Doing a search on "creatine" means that you slog through reams of references on creatine kinases and muscle damage, including cardiac damage--certain CPK levels in the blood increase after exertion, and especially after a heart attack. The sole reference on creatine itself and fatigue came from a study of people with intermittent claudication, a vascular disease: creatine phosphate seemed to improve such people's exercise tolerance (i.e., they could walk longer without pain.) Whether this is a property of its ordinary biochemical role or a pharmacological drug effect, I don't know. I would be conservative about extrapolating this to normal healthy people. Your suspicions about placebo effects are quite valid in a situation like this. The capacity for a single person to be fooled and misjudge the efficacy of such a nostrum is almost infinite, especially if the drug effect, if any, is weak, which is a fair assumption here. The problem with the "pop biochemistry" market which churns out these "nutritional supplements" is that they are usually based on very preliminary results reported in the scientific literature, which might never be duplicated, or might have no validity being extrapolated from in vitro reactions to human physiology. -- Steve Dyer dyer@harvard.HARVARD.EDU {bbncca,bbnccv,harvard}!spdcc!dyer