berger@datacube.UUCP (09/18/85)
We are using the Unipress EMACS and I am now introducing it to some
novice computer users. Is there any books, articles or other written
documentation aimed at raw beginners? These are people who are new
to computers in general not just unix / emacs.
Or does anyone have a suggestion for an easy to learn / use editor
that runs on unix (Pyramid 90x) and doesn't cost much!
I don't consider vi easy to learn...
Bob Berger
Datacube Inc. 4 Dearborn Rd. Peabody, Ma 01960 617-535-6644
ihnp4!datacube!berger
ima!inmet!mirror!datacube!berger
decvax!cca!mirror!datacube!berger
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{mit-eddie,cyb0vax}!mirror!datacube!bergervijay@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (P. Vijay) (09/23/85)
> > Or does anyone have a suggestion for an easy to learn / use editor > that runs on unix (Pyramid 90x) and doesn't cost much! > > I don't consider vi easy to learn... > Bob Berger > > Datacube Inc. 4 Dearborn Rd. Peabody, Ma 01960 617-535-6644 > If you haven't heard by now, GNU Emacs is the one you are looking for. It has been running on Pyramid-90x (our machine) for at least a few months and we have no complaints. Needless to say, it is for *FREE*. --Vijay--
root@bu-cs.UUCP (Barry Shein) (09/24/85)
Just an anecdote I thought I would share: (this happened the other night) A friend is (finally!) taking her first intro computer course, at Harvard Extension. They gave her explicit instructions on some editing practice in VI but said they can use any editor they like. She took me up on an offer I made to use my terminal at home (no doubt cuz I would be in the next room when a question arose, I'll send Harvard a bill :-) 'How do you move around?' -- try hjkl 'What does that mean?' -- try it, maybe try the arrow keys 'How do insert something -- use 'i' or 'a' 'Which do I use' -- 'i' for in front of a character 'a' for behind 'What does that mean?' -- try it Harvard is running VI under VMS. First, she kept yelling out to me that the cursor was doing crazy things, I tried to ignore it for a while. I finally (to get some peace) walked over and to my horror discovered that, indeed, not only was the cursor moving around randomly, it *wasnt* a screen update problem, their VI really wanted to put the cursor there! Fine, I showed her how to compensate (use '^') and went back. 'How do you delete a character?' (we're talking intro here!) Use 'x' 'VI went crazy again' I walked over, she was wrong, there was a register dump, there was no VI (the VMS4.x upgrade seems to have plunged VMS sites into the dark ages, read fa.info-vax for details.) None of this is VI's fault per se, but I decided to switch her to Emacs (which they fortunately had and it worked.) 'How do you go into insert mode?' -- just type 'How do I move around' -- use the arrow keys 'How do I delete something' -- use delete silence...time passes... 'How do I save a file' -- it's weird...use ^C^C (this was CCA I guess) 'Thanks, I'm done -- why does anyone ever use VI?' Well, in all fairness I *like* vi (actually, I like ed) mainly for it's line orientation and fabulously designed (from ed) pattern matching, it's just hard in emacs to do :.,/^}/s/foo[0123456789]/bar;/g, I like emacs a lot also, I use about 10 different editors during a week, maybe I'm weird. but the argument was lost on her...just an anecdote. -Barry Shein, Boston University
sasaki@harvard.ARPA (Marty Sasaki) (09/29/85)
As the system manager of the VMS system that Barry Shein mentions in
his anecdote, let me add a few things and ask a question. True EMACS
hackers should probably hit the "n" key here.
The version of VI that we are running on our VMS system is a port from
4.1 BSD (I think). VI only sort of works. Changes in the VMS C
compiler, run time library, and VMS 4.2 terminal driver have
aggravated problems in VI. The next version of VMS will break VI
again. Version 5 of VMS will break it for good (our primary VI hacker
has gone off to a *real* job and *real* money, I miss you already
Melissa).
** FLAME ON **
VI is one of the poorest written programs that I have seen. It
is increadibly UNIX dependant, and should probably be
rewritten (using lots of hindsight) to be portable.
** FLAME OFF **
There, I feel much better.
The problem that I have is that the professors just won't change the
way they do things. We have asked them to consider changing to another
text editor, either EDT or EMACS. But they have refused. EMACS makes
the most sense since it runs on all of the systems at the Harvard
Science Center. EDT is a good idea on VMS because it is very efficient
(for a screen editor).
I can't force a change. Does anyone have any tips on how to convince
the prof's that VI is a bad idea. Or alternatively, does anyone have a
VI mode for GNU Emacs?
Marty Sasaki (sasaki@harvard)
--
----------------
Marty Sasaki net: sasaki@harvard.{arpa,uucp}
Havard University Science Center phone: 617-495-1270
One Oxford Street
Cambridge, MA 02138