paul@greipa.UUCP (Paul A. Vixie) (09/24/85)
In article <196@graffiti.UUCP> peter@graffiti.UUCP (Peter da Silva) writes: >Why not just go on using net.decus? I mean, apart from micros we don't >even have 1 vendor-specific group, let alone 2! The volume of VMS articles >on net.decus is small, and it's amusing watching vms types try to do >elementary unixoid things. It is sort of amusing, unless the place you work for only has VMS machines. Then "doing elementary unixoid things" becomes a desperate struggle that you fight every time you go to work... Anyway, you raise a good point: net.decus is a group dedicated to DEC users; why not use it? Well: DECUS = Digital Equipment Corporation User's Society. This group (net.decus) seems oriented more toward DECUS members and their activities (large symposiums several times a year, mostly). It is an unlikely place to find technical information, and even if it were: VMS is not the only operating system DEC supports. Even for the VAX there's VaxELAN; for the PDP-11 there are at least 10 different OS flavors. A better substitute for net.vms would be fa.info-vax. This is an ARPA mailing list gatewayed both ways onto Usenet. There are occasional postings from Usenet people, but posting involves sending mail to info-vax@ucbvax, which sometimes comes back with 99 lines of error messages. Make that "usually comes back..." And besides, info-vax isn't really VMS specific either. Perhaps we need a setup like net.micro.*: net.????.{dg,dec,hp,...}. Or maybe a net.os.{aos,vms,rsts,mpe,...}. You can argue that Usenet is for Unix people, but that won't explain the popularity of net.micro.mac... What net.vms seems targeted for is a Usenet version of fa.info-vax. I (and others) hope that someone will still gateway between net.vms and INFO-VAX; this would just make posting much easier and more reliable for Usenet people. As I've already stated, I vote "YES" for net.vms......... -- Paul Vixie {decwrl dual pyramid}!greipa!paul
ron@brl-sem.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (09/27/85)
> Anyway, you raise a good point: net.decus is a group dedicated to DEC users; > why not use it? Well: DECUS = Digital Equipment Corporation User's Society. > This group (net.decus) seems oriented more toward DECUS members and their > activities (large symposiums several times a year, mostly). It is an unlikely > place to find technical information, and even if it were: VMS is not the only > operating system DEC supports. Even for the VAX there's VaxELAN; for the > PDP-11 there are at least 10 different OS flavors. Wonderful, you'll next want us to abolish net.unix in favor of net.usenix. > And besides, info-vax isn't really VMS specific either. It damn well is! If you've actually read it there hasn't been a single non VMS relate topic on it in a long time. I used to try to read it for VAX hardware oriented information, but alas, they don't discuss it there. INFO-VAX really is INFO-VMS.
paul@greipa.UUCP (Paul A. Vixie) (09/28/85)
In article <406@brl-sem.ARPA> ron@brl-sem.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) writes: >> This group (net.decus) seems oriented more toward DECUS members and their >> activities (large symposiums several times a year, mostly). It is an >> unlikely place to find technical information, and even if it were: VMS is >> not the only operating system DEC supports. > >Wonderful, you'll next want us to abolish net.unix in favor of net.usenix. What? How the heck did you get THAT out of my posting? I'm suggesting that net.decus is inappropriate to technical postings because it relates to the user's society, not the machines. Using net.decus as a technical group would be EXACTLY the same as using net.usenix as one; this is EXACTLY WHAT I AM AGAINST. Did you read my posting before you sent your followup? Was I unclear (if so, insert profuse apoligia here) ? >> And besides, info-vax isn't really VMS specific either. > >It damn well is! If you've actually read it there hasn't been a single >non VMS relate topic on it in a long time. I used to try to read it >for VAX hardware oriented information, but alas, they don't discuss it >there. INFO-VAX really is INFO-VMS. No arguments. The groups is being used as "INFO-VMS"; is was not created for that purpose. Besides, as I've already stated, posting to fa.* groups from Usenet is pretty unreliable. I want a Usenet group gatewayed <-> ARPA: this way if ARPA eats Usenet postings at least the Usenet people will still see them. Did you ever post hardware-specific questions or information to info-vax? Were you flamed for it? I think not... -- Paul Vixie {decwrl dual pyramid}!greipa!paul
root@bu-cs.UUCP (Barry Shein) (09/28/85)
Actually, the reason why INFO-VAX is probably sufficient for INFO-VMS is contained in the request for a new newsgroup itself: > ...VMS is not the only > operating system DEC supports. Even for the VAX there's VaxELAN; (I didn't omit anything relevant I don't think.) Note the omission of ULTRIX. I see this over and over again (eg. recent flames about various DECUS mailings/questionairres omitting any reference to ULTRIX.) No major judgement here, I just think that INFO-VAX is probably covering the VMS topic well enough and a new newsgroup would probably just confuse things. Besides, I suspect there is a huge movement away from the VAX by UNIX users so the trend will probably be stronger in the future (VAX users becoming primarily VMS users.) -Barry Shein, Boston University
sid@linus.UUCP (Sid Stuart) (09/30/85)
Give me a break, does this really need to be in net.sources? Have some consideration. sid at linus