UMFORTH@WEIZMANN.BITNET (04/18/86)
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News from FIGIL....
Spring is in the air, and vacation time draws near for
many, including myself here at FIGIL.
Yes we are still here, and alive (barely). Due to a winter bug
(pun intended), I've been sick and plans to
catch up on outstanding requests have not been processed this week.
I have caught up with all the submissions with this mailing. This has
been delayed about 2 weeks, if you notice the dates Outstanding requests
for new members, archives, etc. are still underway.
Hopefully we will be caught up within the next two weeks before the
system vacation, and a personal vacation which will shut down FIGIL's
operation as we noted in a previous mailing between Mid April until
Mid May, approximately.
Anyway, we're sorry for the delay to all our members. We've received
a few responses to the survey, and are awaiting others before we post
any summary. We need data! Send in your survey, and we can post the
results after the Spring Vacation.
***********************************************************************
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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1986 21:55 CST
From: Robert Innes <NU049588@NDSUVM1>
Subject: c64 forth
To: <UMFORTH@WEIZMANN>
Looking for information as how to get a c64 forth interpeter/compiler
or even better yet send me a binary file for kermit in forth.
We are looking for both of these so as to get a student here on line.
I almost run out of options and I thought that you could point me in the right
direction.
I have already tried Kermsrv but the forth kermit will not go and the assembly
one justs sits their also.
I hope that you can help. Thanx!
Robert Innes
nu049588 @ ndsuvm1
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Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1986 16:19 CST
From: Glen Overby <NU070156@NDSUVM1>
Subject: Operating system interfaces in Forth
To: Forth Intrest Group International Listing <UMFORTH@WEIZMANN>
One of the weak points I have found with Forth is its weak interface to
"real" operating systems. I have seen solutions like F83's hack into CP/M
that are just that--hacks.
I have been in pursuit of a better way to handle files and the other
goodies that operating system writers put in. Has anybody worked up something
that they consider "good"?
----
Glen Overby
ihnp4!dicome!ndsuvax!ncoverby.UUCP
NU070156@NDSUVM1.BITNET
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Date: Fri, 14 Mar 86 02:13 EST
From: SECRIST%OAK.SAINET.MFENET@LLL-MFE.ARPA
Subject: FIGIL responses
To: UMFORTH%WEIZMANN.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU.Arpa
From: <SECRIST%OAK.SAINET.MFENET@LLL-MFE.Arpa> (Richard C. Secrist)
Date: Fri, 14-MAR-1986 02:14 EST
To: UMFORTH%WEIZMANN.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU.Arpa
Message-ID: <[OAK.SAINET.MFENET].2A0A7960.008EBE4A.SECRIST>
Quote: "May your future be limited only by your dreams." -- Christa McAuliffe
Organization: Science Applications Int'l. Corp., Oak Ridge, Tenn., USA
CompuServe-ID: [71636,52]
X-VMS-Mail-To: ARPA%"UMFORTH%WEIZMANN.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU.Arpa",SECRIST
I've recently obtained a PD FORTH-83 for Apple ProDOS
that is a scaled-down version of the Professional UniFORTH package from
Unified Software Systems... it has a full-screen editor with source,
screen and text file support under ProDOS (i.e. not relative block access),
and over 70 pages of machine readable doc with a complete glossary. After
I have played with it, I'd like to offer it to FIGIL members in a "send me
a postpaid mailer and a floppy, and I'll send it back to you" mode. It
is really neat, but doesn't come with ASM source - so ASCIIing it is out.
(I have IBM-PC and Z-80 CP/M versions, but only own an Apple and a C64, so I
can't offer those... although I can offer the Z-80 CP/M in Apple CP/M format.
UniForth is going to come out with a C64 issue Real Soon Now, and I might offer
that in a similar way.) Suggestions and comments ?
Richard
SECRIST%OAK.SAInet.MFEnet@LLL-MFE.Arpa
= = = = = = = =
Greetings all. Here are some responses to recent FIGIL topics.
Quick question: anybody hooked up the Radio Shack allophone chip
to an Apple or C64 ? I want to do this, and recently found some
text-to-speech code on the East Coast FORTH Board for this chip.
Anyway, on with it...
>
> Date: 18 Feb 86 20:40:43 GMT
> From: bellcore!petrus!magic!b2@ucbvax.Berkeley.Edu (Bryan Bingham)
> Organization: Bell Communications Research, Inc, Morristown, NJ
> Subject: New info on NOVIX chip?
> Sender: usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.Edu
>
> Has anyone hacked this Forth chip yet? Does anyone have any
> information other than its availability on a beta test board?
Software Composers is making something called the Gamma board, I can
post more on it, but it's still pricey. For the true hackers, Moore
has made a company called "Computer Cowboys", that offers a "FORTHkit" -
a kind of prototyping kit for the NOVIX NC4000. It is a 4 X 6" printed
circuit board, with a Novix NC4000, providing serial, digital, floppy,
and video interfaces (all probably in bit banging mode) for $400.00.
The unit comes with the terse cmFORTH (Chuck Moore forth), assembly
instructions, the Brodie NC4000 intro., application notes, etc., and
you need to buy some extra parts (8K X 8 rams, a crystal, 3 caps, 2
resistors, a quad Schmidt NAND, and some sort of 5V power {it'll run
on D cells}). I have touched a kit at our last ET-FIG meeting, it's
for real... cmFORTH comes with source: 30 screens ! (That's C.M. for
ya, coupled with the NC4000, of course.) The company is owned by
Chuck Moore, who wants to see this chip out in the world... more info:
Computer Cowboys; 410 Star Hill Road; Woodside, CA 94062 USA
415/851-4362
> Is a VME-based version available? What kinds of prices are we
> talking about? It is a bear to interface with (to/for)?
Trivia. A beta-board is SO FAST that it drove a DEC Q-bus directly
(a VME is just a bit to fast to do without hardware).
> Post responses, I'm sure lots of forth-right people want to know
> the latest.
> b2
>
> b2 Bryan Bingham
> b2@bellcore Bell Communications Research
> {backbone}!bellcore!b2 435 South St. Morristown, NJ 07960-1961
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: 18 Feb 86 13:38:49 GMT
> From: ulysses!burl!rmw@ucbvax.Berkeley.Edu (rmw)
> Organization: AT&T Technologies, Burlington NC
> Subject: FORTH sources wanted
> Sender: usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.Edu
>
> ...
> ...
> I would like public domain sources to a FORTH implementation for the
> 6502 microprocessor. Or, if nobody has any, I'd like a description of
> what the primitives do and how the assembly language primitives thread
> together to make the rest of the language. Any implementation that
> works is helpful (beggars can't be choosers), but I'd rather have a '79
> or '83 standard. Thanksabunch.
>
6502: find MVP forth or a fig-FORTH from someplace. You can buy a 6502 or
Apple listing (they're different) from fig direct for $15. You might enjoy
the book THREADED INTERPRETIVE LANGUAGES, also from available from fig
(by Byte Books) to see how the language hangs together.
Would somebody out there in netland PLEASE send me the ASCII source for an
Apple FIG or MVP implementation ?! I want the code, but just can't bare to
type it in myself since I have nice commercial ones. But I do want one I
can mung on myself. Anybody want to trade the Apple fig/MVP source for the
8080 or Z80 fig/MVPs ?! One of you has it - why don't you put into the
hands of a fig chapter (me) and let me share it with everybody ? How about
anything 6502 ? Hello ?
> --Bill Buie
> ...!burl!bu-3b5!wjb
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: 19 Feb 86 11:37:59 GMT
> From:
> ...genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!mcvax!enea!tut!jty@ucbvax.Ber
> (Jyrki Yli-Nokari)
> Organization: Tampere University of Tecnology
> Subject: Forth KERMIT ???
> Sender: usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.Edu
>
> Does anybody out there have KERMIT written in FORTH??
> I'll prefer forth-83 but anything will do.
Kermit for the C64 was implemented in FORTH-79. Try to get ahold of a
KERMIT distribution, the source is there in sequential text files. If
you don't have luck, contact me later...
> --
> jty@tut.UUCP
> Jyrki Yli-Nokari
> ...
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: 25 Feb 86 23:55:54 GMT
> From: ...tekcrl!tekgvs!keithe@ucbvax.Berkeley.Edu (Keith Ericson)
> Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR
> Subject: Need help with MVP-Forth
> Sender: usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.Edu
>
> How does one specify the screen-file for MVP-FORTH to use?
> I've manually decompiled the obvious words but have gotten
> ...
> I was asking abuout screen-file manipultions for the Amiga version
> of MVP-FORTH. Sorry I didn't specify that in my request.
> keith
All the MVPs I've used use disk-relative block addressing: it doesn't use
host files. If the AMIGA version holds true to this, you better not do any
I/O to your AMIGA disks (outside of the one you use for only FORTH screens,
i.e. not even the OS loadable image of MVP) or you'll trash you're disks.
Look at the doc or the source - it should merely be opening a relative offset
block on your rigid floppy and just bringing the bytes in... block 1 is
bytes 1-1024 on the disk... and so on.
Until later, may the FORTH be with you...
Richard
SECRIST%OAK.SAInet.MFEnet@LLL-MFE.Arpa
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Date: Sat Apr 5 06:31:48 1986
From: zimmer@lll-tis-a.arpa (Mark Zimmermann)
Subject: Mach 1 for Mac?
Could somebody comment critically on the "Mach 1" version of FORTH for the
Mac? I am severely tempted to get it because the price is so right ($50),
the simple multi-tasking looks interesting, the easy turnkey option to make
stand-alone applications seems good, and a colleague who has it tells me the
documentation is superb. So what's wrong with it? Bugs? Lack of support?
z
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Dateline: April 17th... News from FIGIL --
We are caught up on submissions and mailings.
Some of you got the impression that we either died or dropped names
from the mailing list. If you are getting this, then you are still
a member of our list. Glad you're still with us!
Unforthunately we must wait until after Vacation to deal with all the
new requests to join the list, and special requests from old timers.
V_A_C_A_T_I_O_N begins today!!
FIGIL will be shut down from April 17th for several weeks until
approximately May 10th. If you have requests and submissions, we'd
appreciate you holding them until after May 10th, and then we'd love
to hear from you.
Here's hoping your spring "breaks", vacations, or holidays are
pleasant and safe. Until next month.... "may the Forth be with you".
-- Tamir -- (the moderator)
_______________________________________________________________________
THE FOLLOWING APPEARED IN INFO_MAC DIGEST ON THE ARPANET REGARDING A
NOTABLE IMPLEMENTATION OF FORTH FOR THE MACINTOSH
--T--
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 86 11:27:39 PST
From: <DAVEG%SLACVM.BITNET@Lindy>
Reply-to: DAVEG%SLACVM.BITNET@SU-Forsythe.ARPA
Subject: coming review of mach1
Date: 8 April 86 11:11-PST
From: DAVEG@SLACVM
To: INFO-MAC@SUMEX-AIM
Subject: coming review of mach1
Date: 8 April 1986, 10:40:15 PST
From: David M. Gelphman 415-854-3300 x2538 DAVEG at SLACVM
To: INFO-MAC at SUMEX-AIM.STANFORD
Subject: coming review of mach1
I have been meaning to post a review of Mach1, the Multitasking Forth
for the Mac, for some time. Until I can find the time to post a more
lengthy review I just wanted to mention a few things about it.
Of the 3 Forths for the Mac that I have used (MacForth by CSI, NEON by Kriya,
and Mach1 by PA Shipping Company) it is the one I prefer the best (note
that I am not yet an object oriented language junkie). All the Mac
toolbox is there and the stack notation for each call is documented in the
manual and within the interpreter. The code produced after the FORTH
compilation is pure 68000 code with no inner interpreter loop as is
used in standard FORTH systems (i.e. is faster at executing).
The ability to produce stand alone applications exists in a simple
way (including applications which have more than one 32K code segment).
A full 68000 assembler is part of the package and is easy to access, merely
define your word as follows:
CODE DUP
MOVE.L (A6),-(A6) ; copy the top item on the parameter stack
RTS
END-CODE
( note that an A6 stack is used as the FORTH parameter stack and is
separate from the A7 Macintosh stack)
A disassembler is included which helps you examine MACH1 and your
own code.
The support I have received so far has been excellent! They are very
responsive to bug reports and since January have had several updates
which are not only bug fixes but include new useful words in the
KERNAL and support for the MacPlus. Most companies support takes
months before simple bugs are fixed. The phone support has been very
good, with many of my mistakes fixed over the phone. All the people
I have spoken with are pleasant and helpful.
One very nice thing is a DEMO disk which they offer for $5 which
includes source for several applications and tools useful for the Mac.
Some demos are included with the standard $50 package but this DEMO disk
is filled with very useful source.
For anyone who is currently using another FORTH I highly recommend
spending the $50 for Mach1 and spending some time with it. If you are
trying to choose among the 3 FORTH systems and have no demand for
an object oriented version of FORTH, then I recommend saving some
money and time and buying Mach1.
For those that don't know FORTH but are interested in learning
Mac Programming, the Mach1 interpreted environment makes it so easy
to play with the toolbox without having to deal with the compile,link,
bomb part of program development, and is therefore a great learning
environment.
If you have specific questions about Mach1 that I can answer then
please send mail to me and I'll try to answer and summarize questions
and answers to the net.
David Gelphman BITNET address: DAVEG@SLACVM
Bin #88 SLAC ARPANET address: DAVEG@SLACVM.BITNET
Stanford, Calif. 94305 UUCP address: ...psuvax1!daveg%slacvm.bitnet
415-854-3300 x2538
I am not affiliated with Palo Alto Shipping Company, and am just a
satisfied user of Mach1 and would like to see others spend $50 instead
of $150-500 for other Forth systems when the $50 one is excellent.
The above views are not that of my employers but are my own.
_______________________________________________________________________
Date: Tue, 8-APR-1986 17:27 CST
From: Lester P. Wang <LPWANG@UMKCVAX1>
Subject: RE: Forwarded From FIGIL's Digest
To: UMFORTH@WEIZMANN
This is in reply to Mach 1 for the Macintosh. I have Mach 1 and there is
nothing wrong with it. I have not ordered the update which take the
debugger out of the kernel. The debugger is not working quite right
but Palo Alto has an update for $5. I am very happy with Mach 1. I like
it much more than MacForth. Not only is it easier to use but about 25% faster.
I think it's the best $50 investment I have ever made.
Lester P. Wang
LPWANG@UMKCVAX1.BITNET
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 86 08:56 EST
Subject: FIG Listings Available/Requested
From: <SECRIST%OAK.SAINET.MFENET@LLL-MFE.Arpa> (Richard C. Secrist)
Quote: "May your future be limited only by your dreams." -- Christa McAuliffe
Organization: Science Applications Int'l. Corp., Oak Ridge, Tenn., USA
CompuServe-ID: [71636,52]
PDP-11, 8080 CP/M FIG LISTINGS OFFERED VIA NETMAIL
Greetings. A friend and I keyed in the PDP-11 FIG listings a couple of
years ago for the PDP-11, and got a complete system working under RSX-11/M
and the VAX under compatability mode. We've even got bootstrap editors and
screen-file-makers. I will be happy to forward the machine readable listings
to anyone on the FIGIL list via ARPA, or copy them off for you to an RX01 if
you send a floppy and return postage. I also have the V1.1 and 1.2 FIG
listings for the 8080, and while I've never done anything with them other
than compile them and say "gee, it works", I would be glad to netmail those
to people as well.
APPLE ][, VAX, C-64 LISTINGS SOUGHT
Would someone be kind enough to forward any copies of FIG of MVP they have
for the Apple ][, VAX-11 or C-64 to me ? Otherwise, it'll be another
couple months of typing here and there... sigh. Please save a fellow
FORTHer from disaster - I'll be happy to netmail you the tools or sources
to my efforts, or make it available to everyone else via netmail...
Richard
SECRIST%OAK.SAInet.MFEnet@LLL-MFE.Arpa
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P.S. from FIGIL central:
Note: More extensive information on Mach1 is to follow next with
FIGIL's return to the network.... so stay tuned.
Acknowledge-To: <UMFORTH@WEIZMANN>