hobbit@sunybcs.UUCP (Thomas Pellitieri) (10/15/84)
Unto the Good Gentles of the Knowne World does Richard Tyler of Swiftwater send Warm Greetings!! It has been a great many days since the Pennsic War, where there appeared in "The Pennsic Progress" an announcement regarding the creation of an SCA(*) net. As I have heard nothing on this network regarding such things, I have decided to ask the Good People of the Knowne World who use this network to make a decision: Shall we use net.rec (which is almost entirely unused in of itself) to discuss SCAdian issues? There are a great many things which could be discussed, as well as allowing SCAdians to interact across kingdom boundaries fairly easily. My own Barony is quite close to the Middle King- dom, and it would be nice to get a bit more information about what is hap- pening there. Also, I am sure that many areas would have trouble getting certain useful information. It was suggested to me by Chuq Von Rospach that we could use net.rec, as there is very little traffic there and it is appropriate for the SCA. Do we Re-Create the Middle Ages as they should have been, or do we RECreate in them? :-) If there is enough traffic for SCA, perhaps net.rec.sca will be created! Please limit any future SCAdian articles to that group. The multiple posting was used since there is very little in net.rec to read, anyway! Yours in the Service of the Crown, Richard Tyler of Swiftwater Canton of Beau Fleuve, Barony of Rydderich Hael, Kingdom of the East. Done by my Golem's Hand in Rydderich Hael this 15th day of October, Anno Societatis XIX (*) SCA is the Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc. It is a non-profit organization interested in promoting recreation in the Current Middle Ages. Please reply to: -- decvax!sunybcs!hobbit or seismo!rochester!rocksvax!sunybcs!hobbit "'Once Upon a Time' should be in the future Storytellers keep it in the past Dreaming's what improves us, Motivates and moves us, You won't be my first love, but you might be my last!"
bob@plus5.UUCP (Bob Simpson) (10/17/84)
Gee, you guys mind if I watch for a while before I start flaming? B-) Seriously, the only contacts I have had with the SCA have been extremes. One group was very laid back, social, and open to new members and ideas. The other was stand-offish, insular, and downright rude to new folks. Considering that most of my experiences have been with the second group, my opinion of the SCA is not the most flattering. Ball's in your court guys... -- Bob Simpson USENET ..!ihnp4!plus5!bob USPS Plus Five Computer Services 765 Westwood Dr. St. Louis, MO 63105 ATT 314-725-9492 __________________ All these opinions are my own... ___________________
hobbit@sunybcs.UUCP (Thomas Pellitieri) (10/25/84)
[NOTE: This is really from a friend. I just posted it for him] [ PLEASE DO NOT USE THE 'r' COMMAND!! ] First of all, allow me to introduce myself. I am Dagonell Collingwood of the Emerald Lake knowne mundanely as Dave Salley. I am fairly new to both the SCA and this news.net ( April 1984 and September 1984, respectively ) Our campus computer is not fully hooked into the net, so I can read news off the spool, but cannot post except by forwarding to Richard and asking him to post for me. So if anyone wishes to mail to me do not reply to Richard, but address it one step further : ie, ...sunybcs!canisius!salley instead of ...sunybcs!hobbit . This should probably be a private mail message to Bob Simpson, but I feel that the topic should be open for debate and/or discussion hence the public posting. Anything printed here is strictly my opinion, and should not be regarded as official SCA policy or anything else. Bob, If you wish to 'watch for a while' and read SCA postings, by all means, please feel free to do so. No one is obligated to post or read news. But why do you feel a necessity to flame merely because you have had a bad personal experience with some SCA chapters? Do you flame net.rec.nude merely because you are not personally a nudist? It amounts to much the same thing. I'll admit that any organization that has local chapters across the nation is bound to have chapters that are 'rude, stand-offish and insular' but I don't think that's a sufficient reason to condemn the organization as a whole. For the most part, local chapters seem to build around a college or university. This is probably because of the resources that are available there, ie a large hall for fighting, feasting, dancing; a kitchen for feast cooking; a well stocked library for research; etc. The local chapter that I am a member of meets at ( inhale ) The State University College of New York at Buffalo Classroom Building ( exhale ). Buff State for short. The members are from Buff State, University of Buffalo, Canisius College and the populous at large. I have met, and heard of, local chapters that are clickish, but they seem to be a very small minority to me. Perhaps they don't have the variety amongst the members that the more active groups seem to enjoy. PLEASE NOTE : I am not saying that a local SCA chapter composed solely of students from a particular university is a click. I AM NOT. I know of examples to the contrary. I am saying that any organization with a highly diversified membership will NOT break down INTO a click. Even though I've been in the SCA a short time I've had the priv - ledge of attending the Pennsic War held this summer at Cooper's Lake, Pa. Bob, In case you don't know what the Pennsic War is, let me explain. Once a year, about 4,000 Scadians meet at Cooper's Lake, and have fun. Sort of like a medeval fair on a much larger scale. Fighters battle, jugglers juggle, singers sing, dancers dance. Just about any skill, artform, craft or activity that was done in the Middle Ages was taught, learned, done or demonstrated at the Pennsic War. But that's not really the most attractive thing I found at the War. It's a chance to exchange ideas and conversation with people who live on the other side of the continent. Or even other continent, I understand there were people there from Europe. While at the Pennsic War, I witnessed the following : A car got stuck in the mud and seven people started to push it out almost immediately, without being asked. A woman lost her diamond ring in the grass while sitting and singing around a campfire. Within minutes, nay seconds, there was upwards of twenty people down on their hands and knees with flashlights, helping to look. No one had to be asked. (P.S. The ring WAS found) A portable stove caught fire, three fire extinguishers were on it before the man could scream help. (No one was hurt) I could go on and on citing examples but I won't. I think you get the idea. One last note: As I said there were 4,000 people there. No security force. The first aid station did not report any cases of fist fighting. Can anyone reading this imagine 4,000 people at a Rock Concert without any security guards? If the War was rude, insular and stand-offish, then I think we need a whole lot more of it in this world! One final note, I spent a half-week at the Pennsic, hearing "After you, M'lord","Excuse me, M'lady","Good Morning, good Sir". The following Monday morning, on the bus I heard, "Outta m'way #%$#%","Quit pushing, dammit". I wanted to turn around and go back to Pennsic!!!! Oh dear, I've been lecturing again, haven't I? Oh well, I suppose I wouldn't have been satisfied until I said it. I'd like to invite any and all Scadians out there to feel free to make their own comments and add to or critize anything I've said. Are you listening, Bob? It's your serve. Dagonell Collingwood of the Emerald Lake -)------ Kingdom of the East, Barony of Rydderich Hael, Canton of Beau Fleuve, Household of the Emerald Lake. Done by MY Golem's hand, In the Household of the Emerald Lake This 24th day of October, Anno Societatis XIX. decvax!sunybcs!canisius!salley or seismo!rochester!rocksvax!sunybcs!canisius!salley [ Posted by Richard Tyler of Swiftwater (sunybcs!hobbit) ]
lee@rochester.UUCP (Lee Moore) (10/26/84)
I, too, would like to comment on the SCA. Several years ago, I tried
to join the SCA chapter here in Rochester, NY. I had previously been
a member of Markland (a dark ages-viking group) and was looking for something
similar. I attended meetings for several months at which time I went to
a feast. At this feast, several of the officers asked me "Who are you?".
They thought I was some stranger from out of town. The reason they didn't
know who I was is because they were too busy plotting over who was to be
King. Apparently there was a debated call by one of the referees in the
final match to determine who was to be king. So now there were two contenders
each of which had his own supporters. Even though everbody talked about
the succession, nobody was willing to give details... "if you don't know
already, we can't tell you". Great. Another detail: when I arrived I was
asked what I did. When I told them, their reaction was: "Oh no, not another
computer person!"
Ok, Ok, you might say this was just a small group of people and I shouldn't
blast all of SCA just because of them. While this is true, discussions
with other people at other schools bring out similar experiences. The
SCA is the only organization that I know of that actually LIKES to create
bureaucracy. You can only wear approved colors and you must act your
station in life. While authenticity is a reasonable goal, it is often
used as a means to put down people. People take the SCA too seriously.
They should remember (that like Science Fiction Fandom) it's just a
goddamm hobby.
Here is an SCA joke that I heard in my Markland days:
Q: Why can't SCA women get pregnant?
A: They can't stand to be out of period for nine months.
--
Internet: lee@rochester.arpa
UUCP: {decvax, allegra, seismo}!rochester!lee
Phone: [USA] (716) 275-7747, -5671
Physical: 43 01' 40'' N, 77 37' 49'' Wwetcw@pyuxa.UUCP (T C Wheeler) (10/26/84)
I have read several postings mentioning SCA. Excuse my ignorance, but what is SCA? What do the letters mean? I cannot for the life of me figure out what it is. Could one of you folks explain, it would be more interesting to read if I knew what SCA was. Thanks. T. C. Wheeler
brad@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Brad Spear) (10/30/84)
In article <2566@rochester.UUCP> lee@rochester.UUCP (Lee Moore) writes: > ... I attended meetings for several months at which time I went to > a feast. At this feast, several of the officers asked me "Who are you?". > They thought I was some stranger from out of town. The reason they didn't > know who I was is because they were too busy plotting over who was to be > King. Apparently there was a debated call by one of the referees in the > final match to determine who was to be king. So now there were two contenders > each of which had his own supporters. Even though everbody talked about > the succession, nobody was willing to give details... "if you don't know > already, we can't tell you". Great. You say several officers asked who you were? How well did you get to know them during the several months? If they only saw you once or twice, there is no reason to expect them to remember your name. After all, they have to deal with many SCA people, in addition to their real life. Most people can't remember names and faces readily, unless there is something special about the meeting or the person. At the Crown Tournament, (when the King & Queen are chosen, for those who don't know), tension can get quite high, it is by far the most important tournament in the SCA. Yes, it is only a hobby, but how many people become obstinate and un-talkative in the last few minutes of a hotly contested professional sport, say football or basketball, or after the game when they feel that 'their' team lost because of what the person considered a bad call by the referee? The problem is not intrinsic to the SCA. > The SCA is the only organization that I know of that actually LIKES to create > bureaucracy. You can only wear approved colors and you must act your > station in life. While authenticity is a reasonable goal, it is often > used as a means to put down people. > ... There is no SCA regulation forcing people to wear approved colors, which makes us a little more lenient than the age we are trying to recreate. If one wanted to wear certain colors in the medieval world, or certain metals or gems, one had to be in the proper class, or at least willing to pay through the nose. The only true 'dress code' in effect is that one must "wear pre-17th century dress of any period or culture" (Corpora of the Society for Creative Anachronism, 8 Nov 80 Revision), or at least to have made a serious attempt at it. This is only natural, since we are trying to recreate something of a pre-17th century environment. Actually, this is usually stretched up to about the mid-17th century, to allow Cavaliers. As far as acting your station in life, that is up to the individual. Everyone is considered to be a noble until proven otherwise. If one wishes to show up as a peasant, it is one's option. It is reasonable to expect at least the manners of modern civilization however. Putting down people is not a goal of the SCA. There are 'snobs' everywhere. Since the SCA has a lot of people, with a lot of different tastes and abilities, we also have snobs. Just do what you would do in normal life. After all, like the saying goes, "you can choose your friends ...". A lot of people have found a lot of friends in the SCA, and they have found it to be a worthwile hobby. I hope you do too. > They should remember (that like Science Fiction Fandom) it's just a > goddamm hobby. I know of Fans that forget to drop the act when they go home. > Here is an SCA joke that I heard in my Markland days: > Q: Why can't SCA women get pregnant? > A: They can't stand to be out of period for nine months. Heh, Heh! I'll have to remember to tell that to my girlfriend. ... On second thought, maybe I'd better not. All in all, the SCA has been around for over 18 years, we must be doing something right. Brad Spear sdcrdcf!brad
traite@wivax.UUCP (Paul Traite) (10/30/84)
> I have read several postings mentioning SCA. Excuse my > ignorance, but what is SCA? What do the letters mean? > I cannot for the life of me figure out what it is. Could > one of you folks explain, it would be more interesting to > read if I knew what SCA was. Thanks. > T. C. Wheeler ** DISCLAIMER ** The following description is my own and not official SCA, Wang Institute, or anyone else's pap. ** SCA stands for the Society for Creative Anachronism. It is an international organization whose members are interested in exploring and re-creating various aspects of the middle ages (ie midieval times). This is done through workshops and guilds in many arts, crafts, and activities such as (and the following is by no means exhaustive): archery, brewers, needleworkers, dance, instumental and vocal music, woodworking, metalworking, armory, medieval combat (taught as a martial art), cooking, calligraphy, heraldry, luthering (musical instrument making); midieval education, medicine, poetry, cosmology, etc.; researching and making clothing of the period. To bring all the above special interest groups together, events such as tournaments, dances, and feasts are held. At these events, members take on an alternate persona (similar to fantasy role-playing games). During the event, they take on the personality, dress, and knowledge of a person who might have lived in the middle ages (no, you can't be Henry the 1st, but you could be an anonimous noble in his court). For the most part, the people at these events place the most emphasis on having a good time first and being medieval while doing it. As I said above in the disclaimer, these are just my own opinion (I have been a member of the SCA off and on for 5-6 years). I believe there are about 10,000 members, and there are probably 10,000 different opinions on what the SCA is. I hope that other SCAdians will post their ideas so that non-SCA people can get a more balanced picture of the Society. Aidien (...decvax!wivax!traite)
jon@boulder.UUCP (Jon Corbet) (11/13/84)
[Line eater bugs are strictly out of period!] This is posted for a friend (Liz Coolbaugh). Replies sent to me will get back to her. Eventually, when I get NCAR on the net, this won't be necessary.... From: MRS::AAP1::MANAGER 12-NOV-1984 16:31 To: MRS::RDSS::CORBET Subj: Here is my posting. Thanks a lot! Liz In article <2566@rochester.UUCP> lee@rochester.UUCP (Lee Moore) wrote: > ... I attended meetings for several months at which time I went to > a feast. At this feast, several of the officers asked me "Who are you?". > They thought I was some stranger from out of town. The reason they didn't > know who I was is because they were too busy plotting over who was to be > King. Apparently there was a debated call by one of the referees in the > final match to determine who was to be king. So now there were two contenders > each of which had his own supporters. Even though everbody talked about > the succession, nobody was willing to give details... "if you don't know > already, we can't tell you". Great. First, no one in the SCA can "plot" who is to be King or Queen since the decision is solely the outcome of the Crown Tournament, a contest of arms using rattan weapons and following rules of safety the SCA has developed over the last eighteen years and sometimes including a contest of skill in the Arts and Science though rarely. People may have been concerned that unfortunate circumstances could cause it to be unclear who should have won but they cannot "plot" what the outcome can be. Second, there are no "referees" at an SCA fighting event. There are "marshals" on the field but their purpose is to prevent the fighters from accidently leaving the arena (helms are notoriously bad for peripheral vision), to stop the fighting if safety is in question (someone's armor comes undone - they may not notice but the marshal should) and to protect the people who are watching the fighting. According to Corpora, (the "constitution" of the SCA), in the Rules of the Lists, any fighter is honor-bound to accept a blow dealt to her/him as if it had been a real sword. S/He is in turn honor-bound to accept the judgement of her/his opponent as to the blows dealt. This is ONE of the fundamental ways in which honor and chivalry is an integral part of the SCA. Obviously, to question the outcome of a contest is to question the honor of a fighter in the contest, an emotion charged issue at best. These are some of the "details" that people did not tell you about. Now you know. For better or worse, the Society for Creative Anachronism has many of the same characteristics of a small town. You could easily debate (as many people have) the advantages of a small town over a city or vice versa. I have no desire to do so here. Small towns and cities are different. One main characteristic of a small town is the exaggeration of both faults and defaults. The Society can produce friendships, ties, kindnesses and courtesies far in excess of what you will find normally in business and organizations where the membership fluctuates frequently or meets highly infrequently. Conversely, because of close association, the enmities between incompatible personalities tend to reach high proportions. This reflects poorly in people who do not want to talk to new people or who are so occupied in current events that they do not spend the time with someone new to explain events. I make no apologies for the Society. I believe if nothing else we are most honest in both our faults and virtues. The addition of one or two people to a group often changes its characteristics wildly but like all things, wait a while and it will change again. Obviously the Society for Creative Anachronism provides a great deal for the people WHO ENJOY WHAT IT HAS TO OFFER. I would hope that everyone who came to an SCA event would meet kindness and good people. I try to extend friendliness and courtesy to everyone I meet. Unfortunately for my good intentions, I sometimes meet people I don't like or don't wish to talk to. That does not mean that they are unlikable or that they wouldn't make a valuable contribution to the organization from which I might benefit. It simply means that our two personalities are incompatible. Nothing will change this. Everyone cannot get along. The best thing you can say about the SCA is that what I think of you doesn't count at all. You are welcome in the SCA on the basis of your own behavior and not on the basis of my opinion of you. The only thing that will bar you from an SCA event is to break a mundane law at an event, or to be totally unwilling to wear even an attempt at a costume. Whoever you are and whatever you do, when you stop by an SCA event there is a chance you will meet some people you like and a chance you will not. If you don't the first time you may the second. The SCA cannot make any promises. As for "everyone"'s unwillingness to tell you the details of what was going on, you have to remember this. You are asking someone who doesn't know you at all to talk about people they probably know very well. If a stranger at a party asked me to give them the details of my sisters divorce, I would be very hesitant. The personalities and background behind SCA events can be that complex and can require the same amount of delicacy. After all, even if you don't like someone you will probably see them again and possibly work closely with them. If I told you, a total stranger, what an asshole I thought my ex-brother-in-law was and it turned out you were actually his old buddy from college or you later became a close friend of his, I would be pretty embarrassed and would have been pretty rude to my ex-brother-in-law to spout off my personal feelings to someone I didn't know. > While authenticity is a reasonable goal, it is often > used as a means to put down people. > ... The debate among members of the SCA as to whether the SCA should emphasize authenticity or "having fun" has raged since the year one. It will probably continue on as long as the SCA exists which currently looks to be a very long time. You have an opinion that authenticity is a reasonable goal but shouldn't be emphasized to put down people. Congratulations!! Your opinion is that of probably the vast majority of the people in the SCA who continue to try and compromise between authenticity and, literally, fantasy. The point is to have fun and not to stop other people from having fun. Considering your opinion happens to be the same as mine, I hope you someday join the SCA and add to the number of people working towards this goal. If you want to read more debates about the role authenticity should play in the SCA, I suggest you read some official SCA publications since they are often full of the same debate. Personally I think it okay to flame about problems in the SCA. You should here me flame about the ones I run into. It is no better and no worse than anything else but it won't hurt the SCA to have some shortcomings pointed out. The worst problems are most likely to occur when people forget that a problem can happen and therefore don't take the time to listen to people who are upset. > Another detail: when I arrived I was asked what I did. When I told them, > their reaction was: "Oh no, not another computer person!" Mea culpa! Mea culpa! I think those same words have fallen from my very lips. Of course, I myself make a living as a programmer which has some influence on this fact. It is a very strange and highly anomalous aspect of the SCA, an organization known for having at least one representative from every known profession on this planet including teachers, bus drivers, bank clerks, waitresses, contruction workers, artists, etcetera ad infinitum that an incredibly large number of us are computer programmers. I really don't think you should take it as a put-down. Our soon-to-be Princess of the Outlands who was until just recently our Kingdom Herald is also a computer person. So is our Organization-wide herald who is also one of the most famed bards the SCA has ever produced (For people in the SCA: I may be exaggerating but I think I can fairly say this for the kingdoms west of the Mississippi at least, certainly my own kingdom (Atenveldt). My only explanation for most people's reaction to this anomaly is that the SCA primarily attracts individualists (contrary to the apprehension that it breeds bureaucracy - we simply let born bureaucrats run whatever they are good at running, as long as it isn't us!) and therefore don't like to be reminded how predictable they are. (Ah! You're a computer programmer! Then, according to the stats, there is a 45% greater probability that you will like the SCA than if you had been a waitress! You should try it!) For the people who are reading this, yes, I am long-winded, aren't I? Maybe they should have a separate topic for the SCA so you wouldn't have to read this unless you wanted to! (Never accuse me of being obvious.) I am glad to see some mailings about the SCA showing up on the USENET bulletin board. When my friend (who is posting this for me) first showed me the list of topics for USENET I was disappointed not to see one for the SCA. I would like to extend greetings to all people out there who are in, near, or interested in the SCA. One of my favorite things about the SCA is the wonderful people I have met while traveling to far-away SCA events. Unfortunately, monetarily, I cannot always travel as much as I might. So, I'd like to meet a few people through USENET. After all, if you have anything to do with the SCA at least we already have something in common to talk about. Also, there is also the exciting possibly of getting to meet someone in person after knowing them vicariously over several months. Unlike some of the lucky people who wrote before me, I have never made it to Pennsic. Being from Boulder Colorado makes it tough to take time to travel to Pennsylvania. However, the more people I wanted to meet the more reason I would have to travel there! Besides, in 1986 comes the 20th year celebration and I wouldn't mind at all spending the whole week introducing myself to people from all over the county that I had met on USENET. I am Lady Demelza Felinnoir from the Shire of Caer Galen, Principality of the Outlands, Kingdom of Atenveldt and I greet you all and wish you well. In the SCA I spend most of my time as a Lists Officer and in work in the Arts and Sciences. I am the Lists Officer for the Principality of the Outlands and would be very interested in hearing the customs for running tournaments in different areas. I have been collecting different methods ever since I became a Lists Officer but again, have been restricted by the distance I can travel. I also love costuming, cooking (and eating!), calligraphy, flirtation (maybe I should have listed this first!), more flirtation, and having as much fun as I can get away with. Please respond ye members of our Society. Tell me of yourselfs and I will tell ye of myself, those around and dear to me and any other information you might request (within the bounds of courtesy and privacy). May the roads rise to meet you and the wind blow always at your back! Lady Demelza Felinnoir { Liz Coolbaugh } -- Jonathan Corbet National Center for Atmospheric Research {seismo|hplabs}!hao!boulder!jon