9222wl@hou2a.UUCP (W.LEE) (03/07/85)
Some others: In a Gadda Da Vida -- Iron Butterfly Time -- Chanbers Brothers Sound Chaser -- Yes The Soft Parade, When the Music's Over, The End -- Doors Baba O'Reilly -- Who Sympathy for the Devil - Stones (even longer and varied version by Blood, Sweat, and Tears) Tuesday Afternoon, Knights in White Satin, Question -- Moody Blues Diane Wilkerson Bill L'Hotta ..!hopd4!dvw ..!hobcms!a1 (neither of which is this account!!!)
trb@cbscc.UUCP (Tom Balent) (03/08/85)
Roy Harper had a number of albums (in the early and mid 70's) that had long pieces. In particular there is The Lords Prayer which is side two of the Lifemask album. Also, One of Those Days in England which is side two of Bullinamingvase. Roy never caught on here in the U.S., but seemed to be big in England - in fact he is a friend of a number of other British rockers. He sang Have a Cigar on Pink Floyd's Welcome to the Machine, and Led Zepplin had a song on one of their album that was titled For Roy. If you can find his records, try 'em. trb sccs at&t columbus I can fit into your puzzle But it's hardly ever a whole I'll tell you, tell you the trouble The habits I got are more than ten thousand years old. R. Harper
RMS.G.HNIJ%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA (John S. Labovitz) (03/10/85)
how about "Sister Ray", by Lou Reed (on the `White Light White Heat' album (actually, almost any of these songs would qualify)). @hnij@ -------
rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Professor Wagstaff) (03/12/85)
One should actually distinguish what one means by "long & varied" pieces.
They seem to fall into a variety of categories, and some fall into several
or none at all. But there would seem to be a variety of subtypes that typify
"long & varied" pieces.
1. Extended "jams" - either of the "downhome" rock (Allman Bros., Canned Heat,
Lynyrd Skynyrd) variety or the jazz-rock variety. Basically some
unique motif is played by the band at the beginning and the end,
and perhaps intermittently throughout, with extended so-called
improvisational solos taken by various players in the ensemble.
2. Drone music - usually of the electronic/synthesizer music variety, in which
a sequencer riff is played over the course of the composition, with
more so-called improvisational noodling of sorts (or perhaps other
riffs in counterpoint in the more elaborate pieces) "on top" of the
sequencer base. Usually large sections of music like this are spliced
together (often somewhat arbitrarily) and given a name (taking up one
entire album side). Tangerine Dream made their name from this style,
but others (mostly Europeans) have exploited it as well.
3. Slow buildup to climax - somewhat like Ravel's Bolero: take a very simple
theme, arrange it in a very simple context, and repeat it over and over
again, building on the arrangement with each reiteration. The final
iteration represents the grandest and most pompous arrangement of all,
often with a suitably bombastic ending. Vangelis excels at this style
(though he also engages in (2) as well). "Does Everyone Stare?"
by the Police represents a more Canterbury-ish example of this.
4. Pastiches - a la Abbey Road side 2: lots of shorter (and perhaps less
conspicuous) pieces are strung together, often only for the sake of
sheer pomposity and grandiosity, occasionally given a suitably
banal name imbued with self-importance. Often these pieces combine
examples of shorter type 1, 2, and 3 pieces. Early pre-Moon Floyd
often took on this form. As did early Genesis. (Genesis probably
flirted with 3, 4, AND 5 below. Much of the Enossified part of
"Lamb" consisted of examples from type 3 above [e.g., "Carpet
Crawlers"], but Supper's Ready and even shorter long pieces like
"Cinema Show" are probably combinations of 3, 4, and 5. Since I'm
talking so much about type 5, I should tell you what I'm referring to...
5. Elaborate extended compositions - these pieces were usually showcases of
instrumental virtuosity, but sometimes compositional virtuosity and
innovativeness crept in to make it more than just "showing off".
Yes wavered between the latter and the former throughout their career.
"Close to the Edge" is perhaps the primordial example of such an
elaborately conceived composition: using extensive highly linear
instrumental parts (Wakeman playing Howe's line at double speed),
elaborate tonal colorations, sweeping attempts at Stravinskyism through
sudden shocking seemingly out-of-place chordal attacks (usually
implemented during polymetric sequences in opposing time signatures).
"Edge" is at least part pastiche (it really consists of two actual
"songs" connected by instrumental sections, with a reprise of the first
song form at the end), but it differs from simple pastiches in its
compositional complexity. Its predecessor, "Heart of the Sunrise",
foreshadowed much of Edge's compositional form. It successors (Oceans,
Sound Chaser, Delirium, Awaken, etc.) were ALL pale reflections on
past glory (though "The Ancient" is the freshest thing on "Oceans").
ELP, though often more a showcase for Emerson's virtuosity,
occasionally showed great compositional style: Karn Evil 9, Trilogy.
Other times we witnessed blithering attempts at compositional
legitimacy, designed to "show" some sort of respectability (e.g, the
so-called Concerto), at the expense of Emerson's best facets as a
composer. OBVIOUSLY my biases are showing, but I think we can really
divide this category into two categories: original creative
intense composition showing instrumental virtuosity and pigheaded
flatulent showing off for its own sake. Since one person's creative
composition is another person's flatulence, no one person can say
(except for themselves) where the boundary is. But both categories
exist.
6. "Experimentation" - this term usually means that the performer was on drugs
when the piece was recorded, and that it consists of random sounds that
just happened to happen during the course of a 400 hour recording
session. As Ralph Records used to say in their catalog regarding
submission of tapes for their perusal: "If you must send tapes, don't.
But if you still want to submit tapes, don't. But if you still want to
submit tapes: 1. NO ROCK 2. NO DISCO 3. NO TEN HOUR CONVERSATIONS
WITH YOUR FRIEND WHO IS ON DRUGS". You get the idea.
Hopefully, I've offended lovers of all of these various genres equally.
The point is that referring to "long & varied pieces" is as ambiguous as
referring to "music".
--
Meet the new wave, same as the old wave...
Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlrdlb@stcvax.UUCP (David Black) (03/14/85)
How about: Lou Reed's "Walk on the Wild Side" off the live album "Take No Prisoners" Husker Du's "Reoccuring Dreams" (13:47 - honest) off "Zen Arcade" David Black
leads@burl.UUCP (leads) (03/15/85)
I haven't seen any mention of Arlo Guthrie's songs, "Alice's Restaurant" and "The Motorcycle Song". These tunes (though not considered rock) deserve mentioning just because. (How's that for reasoning?) "I don't want a pickle....." so long, Dave Schumacher
cv@linus.UUCP (Chris Valas) (03/15/85)
-=-
Also:
The Velvet's "Sister Ray" (or has this been said...?)
By the way, anyone who likes this song should listen to the cover by Joy
Division: It's the last song on side two of "Still."
And, yes, I really *would* like to hear their version of "Louie, Louie."
RIP, Ian...
-=-
Chris J. Valas {decvax,utzoo,philabs,security,allegra,genrad}!linus!cv
-=-steve@micomvax.UUCP (03/18/85)
Here's two I haven't seen; 1) Musical box by Genesis (Genesis live) 2) Court of the Crimson King by King Crimson (The one with the mouth on the cover) -- Steve Grice philabs!micomvax!steve
jeff@dciem.UUCP (Jeff Richardson) (04/02/85)
> I am currently addicted to listening to ELP's PIRATES. It is > over 10 minutes thus qualifying it as a long piece and it is certainly > varied. It tells of the formation of a pirate crew, their departure, > the capture of a treasure ship, the stop at a nearby island, > their night at town and return to adventure. Each part has a different > mood and is cohesive by the story and words. I didn't identify any > theme throughout the piece so it certainly is varied! Ah yes. I went through that phase myself a few years ago. (Phases like that are rare for me, especially when they occur a few years after I first get the album, as this one did.) "Pirates" gets my vote for most effective use of an orchestra in a rock song (piece), as well as best male vocal performance ever. It can be found on the album "Works Volume 1". Unfortunately, the rest of the double album is nowhere near as good, but "Pirates" makes it worth the price. Rick Wakeman has done many records on his own and I enjoy all of them. His records 'Journey To The Center Of The Earth' and 'The Times And Legends Of King Arthur and The Knights Of The Round Table' are very enjoyable, being semi-operatic narrations of the stories of the same name. They use an orchestra and chorus. I am mentioning them first to introduce you what I and my friends consider very enjoyable and listenable music and secondly to add them to the list of long and varied pieces (although it may be considered more of a 'theme album' if you refuse to call it a single piece). Buried somewhere I have a Jet 45 with 'Around the world' on one side. On the flip side is 'The Ho Ho Rock And Roll'. I nominate this as the worst song. It consists of an ordinary saxaphone dominated dance tune a la 60's, but a guy is laughing in the background (and the music pauses for the solo ho hos). I think that this record was used by parents to brainwash their younger kids to hate music. I think the way to torture anyone with any musical taste is to force them to listen to this 2-5 times at 45RPM, then at 33 1/3 RPM so as to enjoy the nuance of every ho ho and drum beat. Hideous!!! Jeff 'doompa doompa' Skot {ihnp4 | mcnc | cbosgb} abnji ! jeff -- Jeff Richardson, DCIEM, Toronto (416) 635-2073 {linus,ihnp4,uw-beaver,floyd}!utcsrgv!dciem!jeff {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!dciem!jeff