leigh@cache.DEC (Allen Leigh @SHR1-3/E29 DTN 237-3255) (11/30/84)
RE: Don Davis' question of Atari vs C64 Hi Don, I publish a monthly newsletter about home computers (for people new to computers) and will try to give some "unbiased" comments about Atari and Commodore. I am an Atari owner, however. As I general statement, I consider the Atari a superior machine. It is easier to operate, more reliable, and easier to program (BASIC assumed), and now that Jack Tramiel has left Commodore and purchased Atari (he is the guy who caused the price wars a year or so ago that put TI out of the home computer market and cost the old Atari about half billion), the Atari is lower in cost. Now for some specifics: 1. Easier to operate. Important for new users. Atari DOS has a nice menu that allows you to do typical DOS things like format, copy files, duplicate disks, directory, etc. In the C64 you have to to this from BASIC via BASIC commands. C64 owners can buy a Simons Basic that gives you DOS commands. Likewise, if your son programs in BASIC, he will find the Atari easier. The Atari has nice BASIC commands to do graphics and sound. In the C64, you have to POKE memory, although buying Simons Basic gives you such commands. Doing file transfers via Atari Basic is very easy, and you can even do random sector addressing or forget the DOS file structure and build your own disk structure. 2. Reliability. Atari has always had high reliability. Up until recently, the C64 had reliability problems, but my friends tell me it isn't too bad now. However, the 1541 disk does have a heat problem, especially older modles, and people recommend a fan. It also has a problem keeping heads aligned. I've had my Atari 1050 disk for a year, have done two software database projects on it for my Boston University classes, and have had no problems with the disk. Same goes for the 800 itself and the 850 interface. 3. Disk Drives. As you know, the 1541 is very slow. The 1050 is much faster, taking only a couple of minutes to do a full disk copy. The 1050 doesn't hold as much data however, I think about 120K. 4. Graphics. Atari has redefinable character sets, about 12 or so graphics modes, player-missile graphics (like an improved sprite), and as mentioned above nice BASIC commands. I've been told the C64 can also redefine character sets but my sons in high school couldn't figure out how to do it. The C64 sprites are nice. I don't know how many graphics modes the C64 has. My son couldn't get the C64 to plot a line between two points and had to write a subroutine to do it; the Atari has a PLOT command in BASIC. Atari can have 256 colors (16 colors and 16 shades). I've forgotten the capability of the C64 but if I remember my son's comments, it is less. 5. Sound. The C64 has better sound because it like a synthesizer, i.e. you can control attack, duration, decay. It has four voices, one of which is for noise and three for music. Atari has four equal voices; the BASIC SOUND command has four parameters. One selects the voice, one the frequency, one the amplitude, and one the characteristic such as sine wave or various types of noise. Both machines have good sound but the C64 is closer to an actual synthesizer and therefore a bit better. 6. Available software. Because the C64 has been the lowest cost machine until recently, it has more 3rd party software out for it. However, the Atari has a lot of stuff available. Most 3rd party companies that produce home software produce it for Atari, C64, and Apple. I suggest you first select the software that is most important to you and your son and then worry about the hardware. Also, take a game like F15 (simulation of the fighter) and run it on both Atari and C64 and then form your own opinions. I am using a spreadsheet and file manager called Syncalc and Synfile+ (by Synapse) with my Atari and I really like them. Very powerful! Beautiful human interface via menus and easy to learn and use! Look into software you want as well as what your son will want because you will find that your home computer will serve the whole family. Read last months Consumer Reports review of the Atari 800XL and Atariwriter word processor; it commented on one of the wordprocessors available for the C64. 7. Programming Languages The one disadvantage of Atari BASIC is no string arrays. To emulate them, you have to define a long string and then partitation it into segments; not bad once you get used to it. Atari owners can buy Microsoft Basic to get around this problem. There is a new language out for the Atari called ACTION! that is like Pascal and C that is becomming popular; it is a cartridge. I think C64 Basic is very similar to Microsoft except it doesn't support graphics and sound, forcing you to POKE. Most of my C64 friends have Simons Basic. 8. Games. You will find excellent games for both machines, and in many cases you will find the same games on both systems. Overall, I think the Atari is the superior game machine. Take a look at Archeon, Pole Position, Blue Max for starters. Try the same game on both machines and make your own decision. 9. Cost. In your MAIL you asked if the Commodore was worth the $80 difference. You should also include the price difference for the disk drives, so the total difference is more like $150 between the two systems. Good luck in your decision. If you go for Atari, send me some MAIL and I'll send you a copy of a new game called Gauntlet. Your son (and you) will really like it! Allen
physics@utcs.UUCP (David Harrison) (12/08/84)
The LCSI LOGO available for < $100 is also excellent. For my son, that's why I bought my Atari and only later discovered what a fine machine it is. The Atari marketing people have been pretty poor in the past, but then we all moan about Big Blue because their marketing people are so good.