davecl@orca.UUCP (Dave Clemans) (09/24/85)
Attached is a subset of the Compuserve Atari Sig messages on expanding
the 520's memory which might prove interesting. This subset focuses
on the commercial board that will be available in a few weeks.
dgc
(PS: I think that this (along with my three previous postings) covers
all of the questions in this newsgroup that have been discussed on
Compuserve, and where the Compuserve discussion might contribute
something new or interesting here.)
**** Start of attached messages ****
#: 124318 S5/ST Software
12-Sep-85 20:17:09
Sb: #123857-RAM disk
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: MICHTRON 70150,366
I'm getting my hard drive from Atari, but would naturally like a RAM disc, too,
since we have a 1 Meg add-on board in the works (open your ST, plop the board
in, solder a couple of things and WHAM! 1 Meg!) --alex
#: 124326 S5/ST Software
12-Sep-85 20:32:09
Sb: #123913-#ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Michael Squire 75236,2640
Mike:
We were worried about the same problem. Before we went ahead and designed
our 1 Meg ST upgrade board, we asked Atari if they were going to do anything
similar. They said no. (Well, at least for now...). And ours is designed so
that it COMES OUT EASILY. No soldering the main board, kludge, kludge... If
Atari were foolish enough to insist that you had to buy THEIR board (which I
harldy think is likely, considering how intelligent and responsive they've been
so far) you could simply pull our board out, get whatever upgrade they were
offering, and then plug our board back in. Simple, no? --alex
#: 124332 S5/ST Software
12-Sep-85 20:41:37
Sb: #124075-m-disk
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: BILL KRIEGER 75136,1432
Bill:
We have a 1 Meg upgrade BOARD coming, by one of the best layout guys in the
valley. Interested? --alex
#: 124336 S5/ST Software
12-Sep-85 20:51:54
Sb: #124117-ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Michael Squire 75236,2640
Mike:
An ST ram upgrade is very straight forward, unlike all this partitioned
memory nonsense on some other machines, (including a machine that didn't have
it in the processor chip, so they added it!). On the Atari, it's just
contiguous memory. And a good add-on board (like ours, for example) should be
able to plug in and plug out, so that should Atari suddenly turn demented and
try and penalize users of 3rd party equipment, you can just pull the upgrade
out. Try that with some of the Mac upgrades! --alex
#: 124341 S5/ST Software
12-Sep-85 21:07:59
Sb: #124330-ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Dave Adair 72277,363
To: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
Alex, when will the 1 Meg. board be out and roughly how much? (if you can
devulge this info.)
#: 124367 S5/ST Software
12-Sep-85 22:17:13
Sb: #124326-ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: MAURI PIPER 72517,3630
To: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
Alex--
You interest me with your 1 Meg ST upgrade board. What is your company?
What price are you talking about?
--Mauri
#: 124429 S5/ST Software
13-Sep-85 17:11:01
Sb: #ONEMEG...
Fm: Michael Detlefsen 70156,1636
To: Alex Leavens 74206,1074 (X)
Alex, I think it will be a little more complicated than merely plug and unplug
the board! All the STs I have seen have the RAM chips _soldered_ into the
board, not socketed. Have you checked on that? It doesn't stop me from being
interested in buying it, but it _will_ make it more difficult to install for a
lot of people.
Mike D.
#: 124494 S5/ST Software
13-Sep-85 20:50:04
Sb: #124341-ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Dave Adair 72277,363 (X)
Dave:
Probably about 3-4 weeks for the board. As to price, you want it bare, or
fully populated? Fully populated makes it >>a lot<< more expensive, because
it's gotta be built by hand. If you're handy with an iron, save yourself some
change! --alex
#: 124497 S5/ST Software
13-Sep-85 20:58:48
Sb: #124352-#ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Fred Beckman 74676,3407
Fred:
Glad you asked. We wanna sell some of these puppies! When: Probaly
(Probaly??) 4 weeks. We've got the best board guy in the valley on it, so
it'll be a >>real nice<< design, but we wanna take our time, and make sure we
don't screw up! Patients are a virture, ya know! (hehe!). Price: (These are
guesstamates, and SUBJECT TO CHANGE!!) Unpopulated: @$50. Populated: @$300.
The reason for the big price difference is that the fully populated board has
32 256K chips on it, and that ALONE is a minimum cost of $180 (and quite
possibly more, if the chip market turns around.) Plus the things have to be
built BY HAND (we can't wave solder 'em...). Well. You get the picture. Just
for info, 512K upgrades for the Mac are running at around $400, and they have
only half as many ram chips as we do! --alex
#: 124500 S5/ST Software
13-Sep-85 21:01:41
Sb: #124367-ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: MAURI PIPER 72517,3630
Mauri:
I'm half of Dynamic Software Design, (so what are we doing designing
hardware??!). The upgrade board is about 3 to 4 weeks away. It will come in
two flavors: populated and unpopulated. For more info on price, see message
124497. Keep in touch. --alex
#: 124504 S5/ST Software
13-Sep-85 21:04:16
Sb: #124372-ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Michael Squire 75236,2640
Michael:
Twist my arm, twist my arm! (Ouch!) Ok, ok, we sure will. See my message
#124497 for more info. The upgrade is tedious (lotsa work), but straight
forward, for those with good technical experience. And the nice thing is that
if you perform our 1 Meg upgrade mod now, it gives you a direct path to our
upcoming 4 (that FOUR) meg upgrade. Makes life interesting, eh? --alex
#: 124506 S5/ST Software
13-Sep-85 21:05:31
Sb: #124375-ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Michael Squire 75236,2640
Mike:
I really doubt that Atari would be that brain damaged, but weirder things
have happened. And those ram chips really SHOULD be socketed (mine are!)
--alex
#: 124509 S5/ST Software
13-Sep-85 21:08:40
Sb: #124429-ONEMEG...
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Michael Detlefsen 70156,1636
Michael:
Yeah, we're aware that the RAM chips are soldered (** big sigh **). We
realize that it's gonna make life a little tedious, to put in sockets, but the
end result will be worth it, because you can have our 1 meg board now, and our
4 meg board later. For more info, see message #124497. --alex
#: 124981 S5/ST Software
15-Sep-85 22:41:43
Sb: ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Dave Adair 72277,363
Dave:
Yes, we're replacing the chips that are there. It's easier to cut 'em out
and socket the spaces, as opposed to trying to desolder them, and pull 'em out.
Doing that can cause >>very<< weird RAM problems later on... --alex
#: 124988 S5/ST Software
15-Sep-85 22:49:07
Sb: #ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Art Leyenberger (Analog) 71266,46 (X)
Art:
There's no theoretical difficulty about a 4 meg board. Your ST needs to
have sockets for the RAM chips. The board is then designed to move the
appropriate lines from the 1 meg chips to the same lines on 256K chips (the
pinouts are not the same, and 1 meg chips have 2 more lines.) You need to run
1 additional wire from the controller to the board, making 4 lines total
(instead of 3 for the 1 meg board). Shucks, we've got the board DESIGNED! But
how much interest is there likely to be in it, when 1 meg chips are so bloody
expensive? --alex
#: 125003 S5/ST Software
15-Sep-85 23:39:08
Sb: #124788-RAM disk
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: MICHTRON 70150,366 (X)
We ARE socketing the board!! But because of the long leg length on the sockets
(to go into the main board), we can't wave solder them. BUmmer. --alex
#: 125479 S5/ST Software
18-Sep-85 19:11:45
Sb: #ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Argonaut Sftwre, Jez San 72247,3661 (X)
Jez:
The memory controller, if you look close, has an extra address line coming
out of it. It also has an (an?) another set of RAS and CAS lines for a second
bank of memory. If you plug 256K chips in, you get 1Meg. If, however, you
plug in 1Meg chips, and run that extra address line to them (I KNEW that thing
was there for a reason!), you can get 4 meg, thusly: 2 banks of 16 1Meg
chips-->better known as 4 sets of 8 1Meg chips, or (ta-da!) 4 meg. As for our
board, if you don't want to desolder, (not surprisingly), you cut the chips
that are there out (ok, so it's 40 bucks down the drain, big deal.). You then
socket the spaces, and plug our board in, and run three jumpers to the memory
controller. It's not a big deal for anyone who's halfway decent w/ a soldering
iron (I did the preliminary one myself, and I'm four thumbed, if you know what
I mean), because you're not soldering anything delicate, like memory parts.
That's why we recommend just cutting the chips out... You CAN desolder 'em,
but the extra effort required to do it right just isn't cost effective. And
besides, what if you make 1 chip just >>slightly<< flaky?? Nightmare time...
Just cut 'em out and be done with it... --alex
**** End of attached messages ****davecl@orca.UUCP (Dave Clemans) (09/24/85)
Attached is a subset of the Compuserve Atari Sig messages on expanding
the 520's memory which might prove interesting. This subset focuses
on the commercial board that will be available in a few weeks.
dgc
**** Start of attached messages ****
#: 124318 S5/ST Software
12-Sep-85 20:17:09
Sb: #123857-RAM disk
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: MICHTRON 70150,366
I'm getting my hard drive from Atari, but would naturally like a RAM disc, too,
since we have a 1 Meg add-on board in the works (open your ST, plop the board
in, solder a couple of things and WHAM! 1 Meg!) --alex
#: 124326 S5/ST Software
12-Sep-85 20:32:09
Sb: #123913-#ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Michael Squire 75236,2640
Mike:
We were worried about the same problem. Before we went ahead and designed
our 1 Meg ST upgrade board, we asked Atari if they were going to do anything
similar. They said no. (Well, at least for now...). And ours is designed so
that it COMES OUT EASILY. No soldering the main board, kludge, kludge... If
Atari were foolish enough to insist that you had to buy THEIR board (which I
harldy think is likely, considering how intelligent and responsive they've been
so far) you could simply pull our board out, get whatever upgrade they were
offering, and then plug our board back in. Simple, no? --alex
#: 124332 S5/ST Software
12-Sep-85 20:41:37
Sb: #124075-m-disk
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: BILL KRIEGER 75136,1432
Bill:
We have a 1 Meg upgrade BOARD coming, by one of the best layout guys in the
valley. Interested? --alex
#: 124336 S5/ST Software
12-Sep-85 20:51:54
Sb: #124117-ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Michael Squire 75236,2640
Mike:
An ST ram upgrade is very straight forward, unlike all this partitioned
memory nonsense on some other machines, (including a machine that didn't have
it in the processor chip, so they added it!). On the Atari, it's just
contiguous memory. And a good add-on board (like ours, for example) should be
able to plug in and plug out, so that should Atari suddenly turn demented and
try and penalize users of 3rd party equipment, you can just pull the upgrade
out. Try that with some of the Mac upgrades! --alex
#: 124341 S5/ST Software
12-Sep-85 21:07:59
Sb: #124330-ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Dave Adair 72277,363
To: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
Alex, when will the 1 Meg. board be out and roughly how much? (if you can
devulge this info.)
#: 124367 S5/ST Software
12-Sep-85 22:17:13
Sb: #124326-ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: MAURI PIPER 72517,3630
To: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
Alex--
You interest me with your 1 Meg ST upgrade board. What is your company?
What price are you talking about?
--Mauri
#: 124429 S5/ST Software
13-Sep-85 17:11:01
Sb: #ONEMEG...
Fm: Michael Detlefsen 70156,1636
To: Alex Leavens 74206,1074 (X)
Alex, I think it will be a little more complicated than merely plug and unplug
the board! All the STs I have seen have the RAM chips _soldered_ into the
board, not socketed. Have you checked on that? It doesn't stop me from being
interested in buying it, but it _will_ make it more difficult to install for a
lot of people.
Mike D.
#: 124494 S5/ST Software
13-Sep-85 20:50:04
Sb: #124341-ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Dave Adair 72277,363 (X)
Dave:
Probably about 3-4 weeks for the board. As to price, you want it bare, or
fully populated? Fully populated makes it >>a lot<< more expensive, because
it's gotta be built by hand. If you're handy with an iron, save yourself some
change! --alex
#: 124497 S5/ST Software
13-Sep-85 20:58:48
Sb: #124352-#ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Fred Beckman 74676,3407
Fred:
Glad you asked. We wanna sell some of these puppies! When: Probaly
(Probaly??) 4 weeks. We've got the best board guy in the valley on it, so
it'll be a >>real nice<< design, but we wanna take our time, and make sure we
don't screw up! Patients are a virture, ya know! (hehe!). Price: (These are
guesstamates, and SUBJECT TO CHANGE!!) Unpopulated: @$50. Populated: @$300.
The reason for the big price difference is that the fully populated board has
32 256K chips on it, and that ALONE is a minimum cost of $180 (and quite
possibly more, if the chip market turns around.) Plus the things have to be
built BY HAND (we can't wave solder 'em...). Well. You get the picture. Just
for info, 512K upgrades for the Mac are running at around $400, and they have
only half as many ram chips as we do! --alex
#: 124500 S5/ST Software
13-Sep-85 21:01:41
Sb: #124367-ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: MAURI PIPER 72517,3630
Mauri:
I'm half of Dynamic Software Design, (so what are we doing designing
hardware??!). The upgrade board is about 3 to 4 weeks away. It will come in
two flavors: populated and unpopulated. For more info on price, see message
124497. Keep in touch. --alex
#: 124504 S5/ST Software
13-Sep-85 21:04:16
Sb: #124372-ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Michael Squire 75236,2640
Michael:
Twist my arm, twist my arm! (Ouch!) Ok, ok, we sure will. See my message
#124497 for more info. The upgrade is tedious (lotsa work), but straight
forward, for those with good technical experience. And the nice thing is that
if you perform our 1 Meg upgrade mod now, it gives you a direct path to our
upcoming 4 (that FOUR) meg upgrade. Makes life interesting, eh? --alex
#: 124506 S5/ST Software
13-Sep-85 21:05:31
Sb: #124375-ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Michael Squire 75236,2640
Mike:
I really doubt that Atari would be that brain damaged, but weirder things
have happened. And those ram chips really SHOULD be socketed (mine are!)
--alex
#: 124509 S5/ST Software
13-Sep-85 21:08:40
Sb: #124429-ONEMEG...
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Michael Detlefsen 70156,1636
Michael:
Yeah, we're aware that the RAM chips are soldered (** big sigh **). We
realize that it's gonna make life a little tedious, to put in sockets, but the
end result will be worth it, because you can have our 1 meg board now, and our
4 meg board later. For more info, see message #124497. --alex
#: 124981 S5/ST Software
15-Sep-85 22:41:43
Sb: ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Dave Adair 72277,363
Dave:
Yes, we're replacing the chips that are there. It's easier to cut 'em out
and socket the spaces, as opposed to trying to desolder them, and pull 'em out.
Doing that can cause >>very<< weird RAM problems later on... --alex
#: 124988 S5/ST Software
15-Sep-85 22:49:07
Sb: #ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Art Leyenberger (Analog) 71266,46 (X)
Art:
There's no theoretical difficulty about a 4 meg board. Your ST needs to
have sockets for the RAM chips. The board is then designed to move the
appropriate lines from the 1 meg chips to the same lines on 256K chips (the
pinouts are not the same, and 1 meg chips have 2 more lines.) You need to run
1 additional wire from the controller to the board, making 4 lines total
(instead of 3 for the 1 meg board). Shucks, we've got the board DESIGNED! But
how much interest is there likely to be in it, when 1 meg chips are so bloody
expensive? --alex
#: 125003 S5/ST Software
15-Sep-85 23:39:08
Sb: #124788-RAM disk
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: MICHTRON 70150,366 (X)
We ARE socketing the board!! But because of the long leg length on the sockets
(to go into the main board), we can't wave solder them. BUmmer. --alex
#: 125479 S5/ST Software
18-Sep-85 19:11:45
Sb: #ST Programs/Explorer
Fm: Alex Leavens 74206,1074
To: Argonaut Sftwre, Jez San 72247,3661 (X)
Jez:
The memory controller, if you look close, has an extra address line coming
out of it. It also has an (an?) another set of RAS and CAS lines for a second
bank of memory. If you plug 256K chips in, you get 1Meg. If, however, you
plug in 1Meg chips, and run that extra address line to them (I KNEW that thing
was there for a reason!), you can get 4 meg, thusly: 2 banks of 16 1Meg
chips-->better known as 4 sets of 8 1Meg chips, or (ta-da!) 4 meg. As for our
board, if you don't want to desolder, (not surprisingly), you cut the chips
that are there out (ok, so it's 40 bucks down the drain, big deal.). You then
socket the spaces, and plug our board in, and run three jumpers to the memory
controller. It's not a big deal for anyone who's halfway decent w/ a soldering
iron (I did the preliminary one myself, and I'm four thumbed, if you know what
I mean), because you're not soldering anything delicate, like memory parts.
That's why we recommend just cutting the chips out... You CAN desolder 'em,
but the extra effort required to do it right just isn't cost effective. And
besides, what if you make 1 chip just >>slightly<< flaky?? Nightmare time...
Just cut 'em out and be done with it... --alex
**** End of attached messages ****