godden@GMR.CSNET (Kurt Godden) (01/10/86)
For he who can't help but think of a <$400 computer as being a toy: You must have thought the original Atari 800 was one mean number cruncher since it was priced over (?) $1000. I'm sure glad I bought mine when the price was still up to $500, or else I would have just gotten a toy. By the way, I didn't know the hospital ward you're in had access to electronic mail...
MRC%PANDA@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA (Mark Crispin) (01/11/86)
Kurt Godden's comment about hospital wards is the latest of a
series of childish and immature messages which have plagued the
INFO-ATARI list of late.
This is very reminiscant of the Atari user's groups of the
early 80's, which insisted Atari was doing everything splendidly
and the few people who argued otherwise were lonely voices in the
wilderness.
A serious concern -- that selling the ST in toy stores at
toy store prices will lead to the overwhelming preponderance of
ST software being toy software -- is trivialized by suggesting
that anybody who dares to have such concerns must be in a mental
hospital. If you want to advertise the Amiga I can't think of a
better way than the current cat-fighting.
There is a difference between a cheap and an inexpensive
computer. The ST was promoted as being inexpensive, but it sure
looks like it really is just another cheap computer.
-------oz@yetti.UUCP (Ozan Yigit) (01/14/86)
In article <12174433790.8.MRC@PANDA> MRC%PANDA@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA (Mark Crispin) writes: > This is very reminiscant of the Atari user's groups of the >early 80's, which insisted Atari was doing everything splendidly >and the few people who argued otherwise were lonely voices in the >wilderness. > I do not think so. Time and time again, majority turned out to be RIGHT, and those lonely voices were wrong. This may prove to be such a case. > A serious concern -- that selling the ST in toy stores at >toy store prices will lead to the overwhelming preponderance of >ST software being toy software .. Who writes the so-called "Toy Software" ?? Highschool hackers ?? Neighborhood cabbies, Aunt Gwendolyn ?? And why is it such a serious concern ??? Is there some sort of a class difference between programs written by those of us lucky enough to have VAXen spread out in our machine room, and those written by a highschool nerd in his basement C64 ?? Remember that highschool nerd who broke into Lawrence-Livermore Labs ?? Did you know the JOVE was originally written in Lincoln-Sudbury highschool ?? But you perhaps know that professional programmers could churn out just as much crap as any other non-professional programmer (such as the cabbie) with the difference that the former is probably more dangerous. If lotsa kids get their hands onto an ST instead of a retarded C64, I am sure we will see more imaginative stuff, not TOY SOFTWARE. > > There is a difference between a cheap and an inexpensive >computer. The ST was promoted as being inexpensive, but it sure >looks like it really is just another cheap computer. > Ah.. this must be the standard "class" oriented thinking. If it does not cost you your left arm, and it is not sold by an obnoxious salesman, it cannot be all that good. Think about it: your VT220 costs more than an atari ST. and it is not even programmable. :-) OZ -- Usenet: [decvax|allegra|linus|ihnp4]!utzoo!yetti!oz Bitnet: oz@[yusol|yuyetti] In the beginning, there was Word all right, except it wasn't fixed number of bits.
freed@aum.UUCP (Erik Freed) (01/16/86)
One thing that has been missing from these discussions is the great potential
the "toy" St now has for education. High schools can afford a good many STs
and can therefore make them available to more students. I wish that there
had been a $300 68000 machine when I was in high school...
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik James Freed
Aurora Systems
San Francisco, CA
{dual,ptsfa}!aum!freedstever@tektronix.UUCP (Steven D. Rogers) (01/16/86)
As much as I am seriously considering a ST for some serious uses, I still can't help thinking of any small computer as a toy that uses an external power supply and that has its cpu in the keyboard.
doug@terak.UUCP (Doug Pardee) (01/16/86)
> A serious concern -- that selling the ST in toy stores at > toy store prices will lead to the overwhelming preponderance of > ST software being toy software -- is trivialized by suggesting > that anybody who dares to have such concerns must be in a mental > hospital. Why should anyone get upset over the "toy computer" name? Let's be honest here: both the Amiga and the 520 ST are toy computers, as are virtually all "home" (as opposed to "office") computers. I don't mean that they have minimal capabilities, I mean that they will be used for personal amusement. Whether that amusement is in playing games or in hacking, I don't think there's a difference. The computer is being used as a plaything. -- Doug Pardee -- CalComp -- {hardy,savax,seismo,decvax,ihnp4}!terak!doug
info-atari@ucbvax.UUCP (01/17/86)
I can't resist putting my two cents worth (if that) on the "toy computer" issue. A lot of big minicomputers have "external power supplies" - they just rack mount them with the cpu. Personally, I think it's clever to package the power supply as simply as they have. My only objection is the proliferation of little transformers if you run a lot of peripherals, and there's an easy solution to that: spend a hundred bucks or so and buy an industrial grade power supply which you can mount out of sight and run cables to all the little boxes. Shucks, you can even rack mount the power supply if you want. That would only increase the price $500 or so. If a PDP-11/70 is a toy then the ST is a toy. -John Sangster jhs at mitre-bedford.arpa
ray@rochester.UUCP (Ray Frank) (01/20/86)
> As much as I am seriously considering a ST for some serious > uses, I still can't help thinking of any small computer as > a toy that uses an external power supply and that has its > cpu in the keyboard. Logic: Small computers are toys. All computers are getting smaller. Thus, all computers will become toys. Solution: Bring back the vaccuum tubes. ray