karen@randvax.UUCP (Karen Isaacson) (06/04/85)
In <2521@randvax.UUCP> Ed Hall happened to say: > An extreme case of this sort of thing is Anorexia Nervosa, where > the focus on this internal self-concept is so strong that even what > a mirror shows is questioned. which brought to mind my life-long experience with mirrors. As someone who has had absolutely no success in the no control of my weight (since turning 20, I've weighed as low as 110 and as high as 240), I've had the opportunity to see myself in the mirror as pleasantly slender and substantially obese. *But that isn't what I've seen.* It isn't a matter of questioning the mirror -- when I was 110 and looked in the mirror, I saw a *fat* person. (When I now look at photographs taken of myself during that period, I see a slender person...) Now, when I look in the mirror, I see a slightly overweight person, but when I look at current photographs, I see a blimp. So --- am I an isolated crazy person, or do most people hallucinate when they look in a mirror? If I'd had more will power, I'd be anorexic (or dead...) today. -- Karen Isaacson decvax!randvax!karen karen@rand-unix.arpa
grwalter@watnot.UUCP (Fred) (06/11/85)
In article <2523@randvax.UUCP> karen@randvax.UUCP (Karen Isaacson) writes: >In <2521@randvax.UUCP> Ed Hall happened to say: > >> An extreme case of this sort of thing is Anorexia Nervosa, where >> the focus on this internal self-concept is so strong that even what >> a mirror shows is questioned. > >which brought to mind my life-long experience with mirrors. As someone >who has had absolutely no success in the no control of my weight (since >turning 20, I've weighed as low as 110 and as high as 240), I've had >the opportunity to see myself in the mirror as pleasantly slender and >substantially obese. *But that isn't what I've seen.* It isn't a >matter of questioning the mirror -- when I was 110 and looked in the >mirror, I saw a *fat* person. (When I now look at photographs taken of >myself during that period, I see a slender person...) Now, when I look in >the mirror, I see a slightly overweight person, but when I look at current >photographs, I see a blimp. So --- am I an isolated crazy person, >or do most people hallucinate when they look in a mirror? > >If I'd had more will power, I'd be anorexic (or dead...) today. >-- > > Karen Isaacson > decvax!randvax!karen > karen@rand-unix.arpa Karen, you are not an isolated crazy person. A corny, but true !, saying "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" can also be read as "Ugly/strangeness/overweight/whatever is in the eyes of the beholder". Roughly paraphased, when you are looking at someone, your observations are subjective, and you perceive the person (or yourself in the mirror) as you want to see them. (ie. you don't readily notice the things that go against your notions of what the person is like). But when you look at a photograph, your mind doesn't readily identify the picture with the person, and so your preconceived notions don't come into play. For example, during high school I had a crush on this girl. She was heavenly, the most intelligent, most beautiful, most greatest, etc. But whenever I looked at a picture of her I saw a slighty overweight homely girl - not a beauty at all, yet it was obviously the same girl. All her sisters looked like her, yet they looked plain to me, while she looked beautiful. Once I was over my crush she returned to looking like she normally would. Now, of course it is possible that just you and me are crazy (this explanation is something I came up with to rationalize my experience in high school to me) but ... I don't think so. I must admit that self-perception and the perception of others is different, because you are continually around youself and it is very hard to ignore the (if you have any :-)) bad habits that you have. Also, as regards to weight, when you look at yourself and say "I'm overweight", you are comparing yourself to others, more than likely models/stars you have seen on TV or in the movies. These people have to (there are exceptions) be very thin because the emphasis in showbiz is beauty, and so, as a result, the people that you are comparing yourself to are people that are thinner than the average (ie. underweight in effect) many who have personized diets to keep them that way. For example - pick up a copy of Vogue and look at the models. They are so slender ! Then take a look around you. (go to a beach, in a bathing suit it is much more obvious that you're not skinny) There are very few women who are actually that thin. As to why someone would see themselves as thin when they aren't or vica-versa - well, when you are overweight you tend to diet. But dieting can (and is) a tramatic and back/will breaking experience - ie. not very pleasent. So your mind says to itself - I'm not that overweight, I don't really need to start to diet, etc. - resulting in you not appearing too overweight to yourself, and so not starting a diet. (In other words your subconscious is protecting you from a (to it) highly unpleasant occurance). When you are 'slender' you probably aren't as slender as the models/etc mentioned above. But since "it's only a few pounds more" you try get down to their weight level - which is very hard since they are underweight. This results in alot of frustration and your subconscious starts seeing the gap between you and them as being much bigger than it really is, because it is so hard to lose those last few pounds. Since I am not a psychologist if this makes someone start doubting your sanity - just say to yourself 'it's just a crackpot theory'. If what I have said makes sense to you, then perhaps you should doubt your sanity. :-) In either case, I would be interested in hearing responses. Fred "If I knew what I was doing, I wouldn't be doing it !"
training@rtech.UUCP (Training account) (06/13/85)
> > An extreme case of this sort of thing is Anorexia Nervosa, where > > the focus on this internal self-concept is so strong that even what > > a mirror shows is questioned. > which brought to mind my life-long experience with mirrors. As someone > who has had absolutely no success in the no control of my weight (since > turning 20, I've weighed as low as 110 and as high as 240), I've had > the opportunity to see myself in the mirror as pleasantly slender and > substantially obese. *But that isn't what I've seen.* It isn't a > matter of questioning the mirror -- when I was 110 and looked in the > mirror, I saw a *fat* person. (When I now look at photographs taken of > myself during that period, I see a slender person...) Now, when I look in > the mirror, I see a slightly overweight person, but when I look at current > photographs, I see a blimp. So --- am I an isolated crazy person, > or do most people hallucinate when they look in a mirror? You're probably not hallucinating (although you might be): mirrors and photographs can distort your appearance severely. Suppose that the plane of your body is not exactly parallel to the plane of the mirror--suppose that the top of the mirror is just a little closer to you than the bottom of the mirror. This will make you look shorter, but the mind tends to interpret the image as the correct height, but fatter (another way of thinking about it: having the top of the mirror closer to your body squishes your image downward, which makes you look chunkier). Similarly, if the top of the mirror is further away from your body than the bottom of the mirror, you'll look taller and thinner. Cameras are notorious for distorting appearances; the degree and type of the distortion is related to the size of the lens. So-called "normal" lenses (50mm lenses, which are the type that come with most cameras) tend to make people look heavier than they are. That's why models are usually slimmer than the rest of us: when their picture is taken, it makes them look heavier. Robert Orenstein Relational Technology
fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann) (06/16/85)
In article <rtech.488> training@rtech.UUCP (Robert Orenstein) writes: > >Cameras are notorious for distorting appearances; the degree and type >of the distortion is related to the size of the lens. So-called "normal" >lenses (50mm lenses, which are the type that come with most cameras) >tend to make people look heavier than they are. That doesn't makes sense. A camera's lense is rotationally symmetrical. I what you say were true, then all we need do is turn the cameral sideways. Then the subject would look taller instead of wider. >That's why models are usually slimmer than the rest of us: >when their picture is taken, it makes them look heavier. I rarely if ever meet any models (one of the disadvantages of my career). The only models I see are in photographs. The same is true for most women. If what you say were true, then how would anyone notice that models are thin? Why would women complain about being compared to a magazine image, if the camera fleshes out the models to normal width? Frank Silbermann